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Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional Development

San Francisco / Morocco News  Board -- My first encounter with post-independence Algerians was with a group of young Algerian students who came directly from the maquis to study in America at the University of Wisconsin in 1964. In spite of the hardship these brothers endured fighting for the independence of Algeria as members of the FLN forces and in spite of all the suffering they went through, they were enjoyable companions at the Wisconsin University campus. 

They were studying English in preparation of their future studies at different US Ivy League universities in different fields. I liked these guys and they liked me. We had many things in common and we enjoyed talking about them during the summer of 1964 in the “Rathskeller” student union.

Present-day President of Algeria Mr. Bouteflika used to come to Casablanca and hang out at the Zoom Zoom Club.  He was so handsome, kind and gentle. What happened to him? I believe that age and power do change people. It is sad to see him behaving towards Morocco the way he does while his health is deteriorating. Of all people, he should be the one to bring this conflict to closure.

The leadership of the Algerian government is blind to the need for regional economic development, starting with Algeria and Morocco and eventually encompassing Tunisia, Mauretania and Libya and perhaps the countries in the Sahel including Senegal. The onus is on the Algerian government leadership. Can one imagine what it would be like if there was a will for economic cooperation between Morocco and Algeria?

There is no doubt that during King Mohammed VI’s leadership era, huge discoveries of gas and oil on the offshore of the Moroccan Coast are imminent. There is no doubt that Morocco is going to be one of the largest producers of renewable energy in the world. There is no doubt that Morocco is going to reach its agricultural objective of irrigating 10 million hectares and that it will also continue to feed the world through its OCP phosphate deposits and transformation.  There is no doubt that corruption will be under control sooner or later, the justice system will become blind in its adjudications and rulings and all Moroccans will be equal under the law. Our Sahrawi sisters and brothers will return to Morocco, the mother country, and the so-called Polisario will atrophy.  The educational system will perform better and so will tourism. 

These activities will lay the foundation for equality in Morocco between the genders and will strengthen Morocco’s Constitutional Monarchy, founded on moral democratic principles. Morocco will have a flourishing middle class that will be the force motrice of development under a fair and solid entrepreneurial opportunity and activity.  This will generate wealth and will also cement the foundation of the moral democratic principles to serve the Moroccan People.

In order to make sure that this process of sustainable development in the region is attainable, the Algerian government should have a vision in which the Kingdom of Morocco as I described above is an ally and a reality.  The Algerian political system which is a Republic can also improve its tenets to lay the foundation for a political system based on moral democratic principles and join Morocco in its effort to do its share for the application of a political and economic strategy that will lead to sustainable economic development in both countries for the benefit of their people.

Demography is the key which will open wide the door to the attainment of this long desired sustainable economic development if turmoil is to be avoided in the future in both countries. There is no other choice because this conflict has been a lose-lose situation. Over the 35 years of this conflict, the Moroccan and Algerian people have been the losers. Soon the population of both countries is going to reach 80 million people and in 2 decades it will reach 150 million human beings who are going to be striving for adequate education, training, jobs, income, housing, food, clothing, health maintenance system, recreational systems and environmentally friendly surroundings.

It would be far better to plan today for economic integration for a combined 80 million producers and consumers than for the 40 million people in each country. Development of an economy of 80 million people who are preparing for the future market of 150 million for locally produced consumer products in the next 2 decades is a win-win situation.  Both Morocco and Algeria have all the resources required to launch local industries to meet the needs and choices of the 80 million consumers and in 20 years of the 150 million. We must also add to those resources the impact of the opportunity for contribution of the Moroccans and Algerians living abroad when they return home. This is not to omit at a larger level the imminent inclusion of Tunisia, Mauretania, Libya, Senegal, Mali, Chad and Niger to also benefit from this sustainable economic development and its moral democratic principles. Can one imagine the wealth this economic integration in the region will generate for the peoples of the region?

Morocco is going solo for the time being is on this right track and its economy is showing some positive results. Can Algeria swallow its pride and meet Morocco half way? The destiny of both countries and people is strongly linked and one cannot afford to leave the other one behind. The whole region depends on the constructive vision of both countries to initiate a sound and durable political and economic cooperation. Both countries’ vision ought to be the same and that is sustainable economic development attained through moral democratic principles with a constitutional Monarchy in Morocco and a Republic in Algeria.

I am confident that both countries’ Parliaments will have a lot of work head of them in legislating and promulgating laws that will be alike in both countries to fight the socio-economic dilemma which is the result of 35 years of conflict and to promote moral democratic principles congruent with Islamic values and improve the people’s well being. Maybe this is where there is a need to start.  Time is of essence.

As to the arguments between the bloggers from both countries who get into it emotionally, no one is to blame because each side loves their own country.  Love for country is sometimes stronger than any other love and makes people say the wrong things to prove that love. I wonder how balanced that love will become when Morocco and Algeria decide to change course and integrate their economy seeking sustainable economic development for their people?

I visited Algeria twice and I did not see any differences between the Moroccan people and the Algerian people.  The Algerian people and the Moroccan people have so much in common and if anyone knows that better than anyone else it is President Bouteflika who lived among us in Morocco.
Generals! It is time for change. . 

Comments (38)  

 
Isam
+7 #1 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentIsam 2013-02-06 15:18
We heard it before. Moroccans and Algerians have much more in common, language, culture, Amazigh, couscous.....et c.

We also heard that Bouteflika and many other Algerians either were born or lived in Morocco and should be at least grateful to their host country.

The US and Europe have realized that a close relationship between the two countries will not only form a bigger market for them but more importantly will form a bigger obstacle to terror that threatens their security and investments.

This is not something the Algerians have not heard or even entertained, they have, the problem is that Algerians do not see the world the way we do. The way they look at it -not only the generals- but Algerians in general, they see it as they will not benefit from any relationship with Morocco, they see it especially in the near future, what you have mentioned about Morocco will probably take place but it is not foreseeable in the near future.

For example, Algerians do not hold France in a good part of their heart for obvious reasons but they will love to have a great relationship with their previous colonizer, the colonized who killed millions of Algerians like bugs, they see their relationship with France could be very rewarding, visas because their is a an immense Algerian community in France, investments, and that is why they were very unhappy when Renault decided to build a factory in Morocco instead.

They have been talking about the visit of Francois Hollande since he came to power, thinking that France is their life jacket, at the end France as always got more than what it took.

The Algerians and Moroccans that you see in this board are no different from the ones back in their home country.

Moroccans are forgiving good people and want to go on without looking back, Algerians are also good people but they are different, they live and thrive on the harsh past that they were subjected to and they still hold grudges. They talk about nif and how Moroccans have no nif. They talk about Morocco "the occupier", "the colonizer" , they still talk About Allal al fassi who said that we should not stop at Morocco, they talk about the events of Marrakesh and Lbasri imposing visa on them, they talk about la guerre des sables.

On the surface we do look and act alike, but we are not as similar as most believe, we have more in common with France than with Algeria.

C’est ce qu’il ressort du dernier sondage du cabinet Ifop. Ce dernier révèle que les Français préfèrent les Marocains au reste des Maghrébins. « Seuls 26% des français ont une bonne image de l’Algérie contre 71% du Maroc et 53% de la Tunisie », annoncent les analystes du bureau d’études en question.

La qualité de l’hospitalité du pays, ses paysages géographiques, sa situation socio économico politique et son histoire avec la France sont les principaux les critères, retenus dans le sondage.

Pour rappel, le Maroc jouit d'une très bonne image aux yeux des sympathisants de gauche (78%) et des sympathisants de l'UMP (80%).


We might not have oil but we have more than oil, we have a heart.

Bouteflika came to Morocco to check Hassan II's grave, M6 paid a visit back to Algeria and drove around as if he was driving in Rabat, and we all thought that we are starting a new beginning. Few Months later the Algerians accused Morocco of financing and arming their terrorists. Algerian generals had to find an excuse to kill the closeness that is taking place between the 2 countries. M6 did not not miss an opportunity to ask for reviving the relationship that was never there, he started by eliminating the visas between the 2 countries and Algeria replied with the same thing.

Should we keep trying? I think we should, who knows, I keep saying that If France and Germany are good friends now, there should come a time when Moroccans and Algerians bury their differences and talk face to face instead of using the polisario to drive their hatred.

One thing is sure in all of this. Morocco will never ever give up an inch of its sahara, the sahara is in Morocco and in Morocco it will stay.

Algerians needs to come to term that no matter what happens, Morocco will not relinquish a drop of sand.
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Borsa
+2 #2 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentBorsa 2013-02-06 17:40
150 years of French subjugation and humiliation have created a broken and warped society in Algeria.

Morocco needs to continue on its path to economic development alone without ever expecting anything positive to emerge from Algeria. Some may feel this is overly pessimistic but Algerian actions towards Morocco since independence proves this to be true.
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Oh Darling!
-7 #3 All you need is loveOh Darling! 2013-02-07 02:17
Mr. Chtaini, it is a quite balanced article, despite somes heavy pro-moroccan bias. However for all your age and experience - I guess you are around 7O years old - you have an extraordinary naive way of assessing your country's political, social and economical situation. Morocco will be a serious partner when its leaders engage in a win-win relationship with Algeria, this starts, as musilims, with cleaning your hearts bulging with steam of hatred. The In Amenas terrorist attacks proved to most Algerians through moroccan media coverage, including this blog, what are the Morrocan's real intentions towards Algeria.
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Isam
+1 #4 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentIsam 2013-02-07 14:16
We need to understand that Morocco is pursuing his policy to mend fences with Algeria for one reason and one reason only: The Sahara.

Morocco understands that taking out Algeria's support for the Polisario, will force them to come to the table and negotiate the Moroccan proposal. What Morocco does not understand is that just like we are not ever going to give out an inch of the Sahara, Algeria will never drop the polisario.

There are 2 reasons for this ongoing arm wrestling:

1- The Sahara unites the people and the monarchy. All Moroccans agree that they paid dearly to recuperate the Sahara and will never negotiate giving out an inch of the Sahara.

2-Algeria also put all its eggs on the Sahara, they have been trying to down the monarchy for 50 years now, and they are not about to just forget the whole thing and start from scratch.

Naturally Morocco and Algeria are reaching out to others to score points against each other. We lobby Malawi, they lobby Namibia, we lobby Senegal, they lobby Nigeria.

The question that begs itself is: who is winning this cold war? the answer is certainly not the Moroccans nor the Algerians?
The other question is who is losing the war: the Algerian and Moroccan people.

As Mr Chtaini eloquently stated, Morocco and Algeria would be a lot better off if they would unite.

The problem is that it will not happen at least in the next 20 years, the only hope Morocco has is the Algerian people.
Algerians have no intention on the Sahara and this is a real plus that could be the catalyst when Algeria gets new leader where Boutef and his clan are no loger there, they have never claimed an inch of the Sahara. In a way, they don't have much to lose if the 2 countries set their differences aside and unite.

Algerians always talk about a win win relationship and I totally agree. Morocco should not be the only one benefiting from let say opening the borders, this come through serious and frank negotiations. I think Morocco is very serious and I also know that Algerians are not about to be taken for a ride.

Algeria needs to understand that they will be dealing with new and young generation of leaders in Morocco. Morocco is not what it used to be and Algeria is also changing. Both countries are not changing at the speed that both people would like, but things are heading in the right directions even though many would not see it that way.

Let's take the Arab spring for instance, Moroccans and Algerians showed that they are the exception in the Arab world, they want change but a change that will not destroy their countries, this shows maturity on their part. When Moroccan demonstrators were on the streets, Police were not even close to the demonstrators. Leaders in Morocco knew that the presence of police will not be a good thing.

Algerians also were stopped from demonstrating and were ok with that, their government took urgent actions and implemented subsidies and raised salaries and everyone was happy. They did not have to burn their country to the ground to get what they want.

Moroccan got a new constitution, perhaps not one that made everyone happy but just few months before the Arab spring, it was unthinkable that the king would share power with an elected prime minister.

Here is what we know now. Morocco is very ready to establish a new relationship with Algeria for reasons mentioned above. the Sahara. Algeria is not in a hurry, gaz and oil priced are up and high demand is there.

SO how do we get out of this cycle of going nowhere? the answer is: WE CAN'T.

Moroccan and Algerian leadership know that if we have do it, they need to do it alone.

Both people are powerless in front of their leaders.

Moroccan and Algerian people have much more to deal with than worry about the Sahara.
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haras
+3 #5 to Oh darlingharas 2013-02-07 15:21
I like it when Algerians in the US talk about win-win, as for cleaning hearts, I remind you, we are not the ones beheading each other...

I do not know which Moroccan media you are referring to, but on MoroccoBoard, that you do implicate, they always called terrorists terrorists and hostages hostages, they didn't try to switch victims into perpetrators and vice versa, nor did they try to manufacture imaginary facts… That would be the Algerian State Media and all newspapers, during the Gdim Izik events, when your TV was “regretting” the death of hundreds of “innocent sahraouis” whose corpses are all over the city of Laayoune… when all the victims were Unarmed Moroccan security agents...

One last wish though, to MoroccoBoard, can you please stop feeding us all these Algerian comments, I do not believe that any light would come from discussing with Algerians, on MB or elsewhere…

They approve closing the borders, yet they insist on invading this Moroccan space... and the funny part, they don't see the contradiction.. .
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Isam
+1 #6 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentIsam 2013-02-07 16:17
and please DO NOT bring up the Muslim thing. Muslims don't hold and torture Moroccan POWs for 25 years and it took an American senator to free them.

Your Muslim leader(s) boutefriqa and his clans bowed to a non Muslim even when many Muslims begged your leadership to free them.

Islam is the worst thing that happened to Muslims.

Terrorists and Sado-Jihadists kill and bomb in the name of Allah. Don't they?

Westerners knew what they were doing when they implemented the separation church and state.

For your information, between a bar and bar in Morocco there is bar. We are very far from being what you call and perceive as Muslim.

I just hate when People start hiding behind religion and use it to suit their own needs and hell with the rest..

Let us be clear. Religion is root of all evil on this earth, when people like you stop twisting the meaning of religion, then you can have people like me give you some respect.

The Islam I know is the one that do no harm to your brother or sister be it black, white, yellow, brown, Moroccan, Algerian, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist....... ..
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David Morgan
0 #7 Religion is indeed the root of all evilDavid Morgan 2013-02-08 13:15
Thank you Isam!

Y'all watch this and tell me if you disagree with Mr. Isam

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Mohamed A
+5 #8 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentMohamed A 2013-02-09 21:47
Salams, Hello, Marhaban

My name is Mohamed, I'm an Algerian who's commented on here before, getting into many fiery debates with fellow Moroccans over "my country this and your country that."
Today on the news I saw that a Palestinian camp with innocent civilians was destroyed in the West Bank (Palestinian land) because Israeli Soldiers wouldn't let them peacefully protest the settlements being built illegally by the Israeli government. This made me think, why do we do this? Why do we fall into their trap every time? we buy there left over weapons and show them off to one another, we emulate them in every way we possibly can, we try so hard to dress like them, we try to live like them and be exactly like them. And we treat each other with disrespect as though we are devils in each other eyes. Well I for one am done. So from an Algerian to a Moroccan and from a brother to a brother, I applaud you for being nationalistic, I applaud you for loving your country, I respect your views, I thank you for helping my nation when we needed it most (1954-1962). We have our differences yes, but that does not in anyway mean that we are enemies. We are not, we struggled the same struggle, we fought the same fight, we live through the same hardships. Its time, today not tomorrow to rise up (yes its scary) and stand up for what is just and not what is evil. I for on am done bickering, I'm glad and proud to call you my neighbors and I'm proud to call you our brothers. And one day the Sahrawis and you guys will reconcile and you will remove whatever corruption remains in your nation (it will happen don't worry) and we will remove whatever corruption remains in ours. Then together we can advance our people and retake what is ours (Mellila, Ceuta, Palestine). So good luck to you guys and inshAllah you succeed in your endeavors so long as they are good for you, Wasalam
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haras
+6 #9 To Mohamed Aharas 2013-02-10 23:25
I have no doubt that by the end of the day, the people that see the big picture, like yourself, will prevail...

I am a Moroccan nationalistic, but I am a rational one, and I think that both countries have a long way to go, in order to put ahead clear and constructive policies, that benefit their own people, and i am sure that when that happens, the close partnership between the two countries will be a pivotal element of that pathway to progress
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riffi
+5 #10 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional Developmentriffi 2013-02-10 23:36
I commend you sir Mohamed you are a true wize man who people like us should trust because people like you make us have hope for union and believe also that yes there are good Algerian and moroccan who can make it happen. God bless you
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Oh Darling!
-5 #11 A poisonous complimentOh Darling! 2013-02-11 11:51
What a bunch of hypocryts some could be!!!

Please look at google and you will find that a famous king, amir al mouemeen, was so friendly with isreal that they produced a stamp to his glory. All I have to say is this is disgusting. Please assume what some people in Morocco have become rather than playing seek and hide. My dear respect to my brothers in deen, honour and respect, I know there are many of them in Morocco as well.
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Mohamed A
+6 #12 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentMohamed A 2013-02-11 14:43
Maybe if you stopped insulting them too you would see that both nations have there problems and believe me big bad Israel benefits much more from division than stamps.
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haras
+4 #13 to Mohamed Aharas 2013-02-11 22:41
Thank you so much for the brief and surgical response...

We are all looking forward that day when there will be Algerian stamps with Moroccan kings and Moroccan stamps with Algerian presidents...
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All My Loving
-2 #14 Dear Mohammed A.All My Loving 2013-02-12 05:30
You are right to worry about division and about the fate of the Palestinians. Could you please shed some light on the fact that Israel produced a stamp in the memory of King Hassan 2. Do you think this something Moroccans should be proud about? Why Israel did this stamp?
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man en blanc
+2 #15 with friends like these...man en blanc 2013-02-12 18:39
Why shouldn't Morocco have relationship with Israel? What benefits have we reaped from the Arab world?
P.S. Morcelli, oh brother where art thou?
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haras
+2 #16 to All My Hatingharas 2013-02-12 20:13
I like how you try always to portray yourself as exactly the opposite the opposite of what you are % HATER...

Shouldn't the question be why there is no Algerian stamp with a Moroccan king on it, let's say, Mohammed V, since you seem to have no beef with that one, or at least so you claim....

Just to put you in the picture, Moroccans have a lot to be proud of, none of which is that Israeli stamp, or any other stamp for that matter... odds are, 99.9% of Moroccans don't even know about it, but you do, I wonder why...

As an Algerian, you should have other issues to keep you up at night...
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Oh Darling!
-1 #17 More than a stabbing stampOh Darling! 2013-02-13 02:52
To all Moroccans lacking an obvious culltural background - there is no surprise to that as any vaccum they have is filled with hatred and rudeness - there is a big boulvard in Algiers named after Mohammed V. I notice that I have asked a question to Mohammed A., supposedly an Algerian, who regrests divisions between Algerians and Moroccans and by the same token is ringing the alarm about Israel's agressions againt Palestine. Everyone seemed to agree with Mohammed A. if I refer to the comments, appraisals and reactions to his posts. Mohammed A. went as far as to write I am agressing people on this forum... But no reactions so far from Mohammed A. on a very simple and straight question about a stamp to the glory of a king who made modern Morocco. Hey Mr Mohammed A. I really need your take on this, are you really worried about Palestinians and you want to defend their rights?
Anyone familiar with MoroccanBoard would realise that this is not a place where Palestinians just rights are defended. I am really surprised about this Mohammed A., do you ignore on which blog you have landed? OK I do not have Mohammed A.'s reaction, it might come later, do you think proud Moroccans will write "we dissociate ourselves from this issue of stamp"? No they are very proud of it. Why would they bother about Palestinians since they identify in so many ways to Israel? Is there a Moroccan bold enough to speak his/her mind about this moral issue?
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Isam
0 #18 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentIsam 2013-02-13 11:00
Oh, we are rude and you are an idiot, you just do not understand how we Moroccans do and feel about things.

Let me enlighten you.
There were hundreds of thousands of Jews calling Morocco home when Hitler was gazing them in chambers, Morocco under Mohammed V and Hassan II gave them refuge and they enjoyed the same rights Moroccans have or even have not.

Jews in general and not only the ones from Israel appreciate that the previous Moroccan kings came to their rescue.
In Morocco Jews are Moroccans who happen to embrace Judaism just like you an I embrace Islam and riffi embrace Christianity. We do not hate people based on their religious belief. If some Israelis decided to honor the king who saved them and their ancestors, so be it, does this mean that Morocco approve the Israeli killing machine? of course not.
Algerian pseudo enemies are the Moroccan Monarchy and Israel, I challenge you to tell me what Algeria did for the Palestinians other than bashing Israel in their idiotic news media.

Are we proud for helping the Jews? you go that right.

Algeria brags about the oil revenue why can't your generals donate some of the oil revenues to the Palestinians? Or they prefer save Qaddafi by offering him arms to kill libyans and Bashar to kill Syrians.

You people ought to be ashamed of your self. As for Mohammed, your compatriot, He is probably Algerian but he has the heart of a Moroccan and you have a heart of an Israeli.
Shame on you!
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Oh Darling!
-1 #19 Isam you are some idiotOh Darling! 2013-02-13 17:46
Hassan 2 was born in 1929, in the forties he was a mere adolescent, if anyone deserved a stamp for saving Jews, it would be Mohammed V. You perfectly know why he got this stamp Hassan 2, no one knows him better than his subjects. Regarding your confusion - which makes you a double idiot - about Jews and Israel you need to quote me if I have mentionned Jews anywhere in my posts and aimed at them as people or religion. We are talking about poltics, geopolitics dumb idiot, we are talking Palestinains agressed by Israel' army. I am only bringing a contradiction I am sure you perfectly sense it in your beliefs if you ever had any about you appraising Mohamed A. post about Palestinains being agressed by Israel and a stamp by the same Israel to one of thesymbols of Morocco, Hassan 2. Either you assume that if Hassan 2 got this stamp it means he was a friend of Israel, this is really bad for ameer almoumeneen which means he betrayed the cause of the Arabs and Muslims, or you need to shut up about Mohammed A's posts.
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riffi
0 #20 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional Developmentriffi 2013-02-13 23:33
Sorry isam I am Muslim and proud of it.It doesn't mean if I criticized the saudis monarchy and it's wahabism that I am christian I am waiting for an apology from you insulting me because judging people without knowing you are putting yourself in the same basket as oh darling and company.
And for. O darling and other DRS I was in a few Algerian blog that won't even let a moroccan in, consider yourself lucky you are writing anything you want in MB.
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haras
+3 #21 to the Hatingharas 2013-02-14 00:30
Bottom line, you agree, there is no Algerian stamp with a Moroccan king.

I wonder if the Palestinian conflict is really the problem between Morocco and Algeria, as you seem to suggest, as far as I know, ALL Palestinians, including Hamas, consider Moroccans to be brothers, and maintain good relations with the political parties, especially the ones in government now, and with the king, besides, don’t you forget that the Eastern/Arab part of Al Quds is what they call Hay Al Maghariba… you know the story behind that…

Also, when it comes to the Sahara issue, all Palestinians are either on the Moroccan side or “neutral”, as we do not want to get in trouble with another Arab country for speaking the truth

Moroccans, just like their king, don’t have this big EGO where they believe that they are doing the impossible for Palestinians. The same goes for Bouteflika, who told the American Army General commanding Nato that he would have done the same thing as former President Hosni Moubarak if he was in the same situation, he was talking about the blockade that Egypt was upholding on Gaza and the effort to close all tunnels that allowed the Palestinians to survive the Israeli embargo. That was behind closed doors as reported in wikileaks, in public, the Algerian government had a totally different take on the matter.

But this hypocrite attitude shouldn’t surprise anybody, you supported Gaddafi, then your secret services provide the NATO with his exact location, just so that he can be captured and killed hours later, you say you won’t allow France to intervene in Mali, then you cave and provide them with all they asked for, you…. Then you….

You spent decades claiming that Morocco should get Sebta and Melilia back, rather than go for the Sahara, then when the Tourah (or Layla) island crisis happens, you country supported openly and unapologeticall y Spain???

Now, back to Palestine, you maintain camps for polisario, provide them with weapons and training, an grant them safe retreat on your soil, and your excuse for doing so is the Moroccan so called support for Isarel, well this begs the question, is there something similar you do for the Palestinians? it is time to show for it, with facts, exact weapons and training you provided for the Palestinians, or better yet, can you provide us with the number of Israeli soldiers that your army killed or captured, in one of the many battles where you engaged them

I am sure you will come to us with the usual human relief aid that your country provides… and the “strong and unwavering” diplomatic support, and it would be pitiful, that after all this gloating, you come up so short… but that seems to be the ALGERIAN STAMP
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Isam
+3 #22 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentIsam 2013-02-14 09:59
Here is something else for you Algerian haters.
All Moroccan Synagogues will be Renovated, and our prime minister who happens to be an Islamist inaugurated one of those synagogues and yes VERY proud.
Now go back to your midget prez and tell him how Moroccans are so against the Palestinians. So passe' so backward.
When will Algerians come out of the jahiliya???

All your leaders are doing is play catch up with Morocco for the last 40 years. Problem is that we are not catchable. Play catch up with your friends in Nigeria and Namibia instead. Everything we do, they want to do it.
I can't believe that they are talking about improving their tourism industry when they are the most hating people in the Arab world and they call it a nif.
Go back and beg France for visas we do not have to. Shame shame shame.
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Isam
0 #23 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentIsam 2013-02-14 11:02
Riffi, that was a silly joke though obscure and I do apologize that I did not place a Smiley in order for you to know.
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Oh Darling!
-1 #24 Israel did itOh Darling! 2013-02-14 11:54
Yes Haras I agree that Israel did a stamp for Hassan 2 and I proved you wrong that a Moroccan King is honored by Algeria in the best way and believe me if Hassan 2 deserved some regards Algeria would have paid the best tribute to him. For the time being the only regards he gets are from Israel and I can see that you are very crossed and caught between two fires: you cannot approve such action because of your identity and what the brave, Muslim Moroccan people stands for and your unconditional submission to the royal family which is feared more than God Himself. Not a single Moroccan in this forum seems to have any critical positioning about this issue when we know that Israel considers all Arab countries and generally all Muslims as enemies and one or more of its nuclear rocket is aimed at each Arab capital. If this is something which is regarded as a positive action for Morocco I wonder why not a single Moroccan media reported this stamp issue and other stuff such as naming places in Israel after Hassan 2.
Mr. Chtaini’s article is implying that Algeria hinders the Maghreb’s development, all I am saying is Algeria needs serious partners and Morocco is not one and hinders the dvpt of the Maghreb by occupying, colonizing, steeling the Western Sahara and is unconditionally submitted to the enemies of Arabs and Muslims. Get that straight first guys and maybe you will be a serious partner or alternatively try to develop the Maghreb without Algeria.
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S Hass
+2 #25 Tzair & TzairiaS Hass 2013-02-14 12:44
@ OH Dakhling not darling, your obsession with Morocco is eating you alive and fool us not we can see through you faster than your granma pants , we all know about your Corrupt Generals dealing with the Israelis and it is recorded during the Nato meetings and during the king Hassan II funeral your shorty did shake hands and hope for a future relationship with the then Israel prime minister , the fact is you are always wishing and dreaming for what Morocco has got , you may pretend otherwise but like i said it is easy to see through you than your grama .... because you are a bunch of hypocrites hated by all your neighbours . Regards from Tetouan everyone
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riffi
+1 #26 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional Developmentriffi 2013-02-14 13:09
oh darling ,Morocco spent so far in its southern province over $30 billions and it is recorded in the UN in details,that's why your generals don't want to open this pandora box ,they know they will loose.One thing the makhzen is good in,it is recording things in details ,it is in their blood.
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haras
+3 #27 Algeria didn'tharas 2013-02-14 23:40
I wrote a long and detailed response for you to rebuke, you couldn't address any of the facts nor did you answer any of my questions...

I could rewrite the previous post, copy it and paste it again, but this time I choose not to...

regarding your "active" support for Palestine ... based on your response you seem to only support Palestinians by hating on Moroccans .. that's what the Fouqaha call "وكفى الله المؤمنين القتال" ... I guess your generals are more comfortable killing unarmed and peaceful monks...

This begs the question, how old are you? the book you are reading from was written by the likes of Gaddafi, who, by the way, started the sahara issue, then switched on you when he made sure you were stuck with the problem... forever... but then again, when Gaddafi himself felt threatened, at the start of the Arab spring, the first thing that came out of his mouth was "what's going on in Libya is not in Israel's interest"...

I think that you came even shorter than I expected, I am starting to think that you are Bouteflika, you can fit two of those on a stamp...
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Oh Darling!
-1 #28 Haras where is the answer to my questions? Or you answer with a questionOh Darling! 2013-02-15 10:56
I will not try prove you the sun is round Haras. It is a well-know fact that Algeria helped and continues to help the Palestinians at least as much they helped and continue to help Western Sahara - will you deny that Aleria is helping WS?- and will never ever have any relation ships with Israel until the Palestinians get their rights. This is one point well established everywhere, why do you think Hassan 2 got a stamp and palces named after him in Israel and not Boumédienne? As it is a well-know fact that Morocco has diplomatic (though not official) relationships with Israel and a few months after Livni bombarded Gazza in 2008-2009 she came to Morocco and received a gift - a necklace - from Mohammed 6's wife. The strange thing is Israel never misses an opportunity to reveal your leader's duplicity and embarasses the people of Morocco, who deserves respect.

There are plenty of forums where Moroccans and Algerians insult each other count the shortecomings of the other, the ennemy. I am sorry I do not want to go into that nor use insults. Up to you to do so if you wish but you need to find somebody else - try Mohammed A. he was so sweet on you.

I brought two facts no one answered, I can undestand, it is very embarassing, but I do not blame Moroccans for any relationships their leaders established with Israel, I perfectly know and am aware that the most majority of Moroccans are true muslims who oppose some of their leaders actions. But it will not lead us anywhere if you cannot addreess this criticism I bring by writing ok you guys you are not better than us with regards to how to eal with the Palestinians and Israel. I expect an answer along the line yes we have a strategy of befrinding Israel because this is our best interests, or maybe, yhe one I am hoping for, our leaders did it we do not agree but there is nothing we can do about it.
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borsa
+2 #29 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional Developmentborsa 2013-02-15 11:49
Whenever Moroccans and Algerians have a heated exchange there is always one thing that sticks out for me and it's the glaringly obvious inferiority complex that Algerians exhibit towards Morocco and Moroccans. 150 years of utter French domination have wiped out any sense of real cultural and historical identity, so they are left throwing ludicrous accusations about the Evil neighbour to the West. It's pathetic, and the sooner ordinary Algerians realise this the better, otherwise we will all witness another Revolution in North Africa and judging by Algeria's recent history it most certainly won't be civil!
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Algerian
-1 #30 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentAlgerian 2013-02-15 12:33
Oh Darling,
Mark Twain said once:
“Do not argue with an....... they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

As for Algeria and the Palestinians, where was the state of Palestine proclaimed? that would be Algiers 1988, and dont take the Algerians word for it, take Yasser Arafat word for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjsxGhJ9yXY
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lamine
-1 #31 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional Developmentlamine 2013-02-15 20:15
@Borsa "Whenever Moroccans and Algerians have a heated exchange there is always one thing that sticks out for me and it's the glaringly obvious inferiority complex that Algerians exhibit towards Morocco and Moroccans."

Give me one example
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haras
+2 #32 If it's working don't break it...haras 2013-02-15 21:59
I wonder if the Palestinian conflict is really the problem between Morocco and Algeria, as you seem to suggest, as far as I know, ALL Palestinians, including Hamas, consider Moroccans to be brothers, and maintain good relations with the political parties, especially the ones in government now, and with the king, besides, don’t you forget that the Eastern/Arab part of Al Quds is what they call Hay Al Maghariba… you know the story behind that…

Also, when it comes to the Sahara issue, all Palestinians are either on the Moroccan side or “neutral”, as we do not want to get in trouble with another Arab country for speaking the truth

Moroccans, just like their king, don’t have this big EGO where they believe that they are doing the impossible for Palestinians. The same goes for Bouteflika, who told the American Army General commanding Nato that he would have done the same thing as former President Hosni Moubarak if he was in the same situation, he was talking about the blockade that Egypt was upholding on Gaza and the effort to close all tunnels that allowed the Palestinians to survive the Israeli embargo. That was behind closed doors as reported in wikileaks, in public, the Algerian government had a totally different take on the matter.

But this hypocrite attitude shouldn’t surprise anybody, you supported Gaddafi, then your secret services provide the NATO with his exact location, just so that he can be captured and killed hours later, you say you won’t allow France to intervene in Mali, then you cave and provide them with all they asked for, you…. Then you….

You spent decades claiming that Morocco should get Sebta and Melilia back, rather than go for the Sahara, then when the Tourah (or Layla) island crisis happens, you country supported openly and unapologeticall y Spain???

Now, back to Palestine, you maintain camps for polisario, provide them with weapons and training, an grant them safe retreat on your soil, and your excuse for doing so is the Moroccan so called support for Isarel, well this begs the question, is there something similar you do for the Palestinians? it is time to show for it, with facts, exact weapons and training you provided for the Palestinians, or better yet, can you provide us with the number of Israeli soldiers that your army killed or captured, in one of the many battles where you engaged them…

I am sure you will come to us with the usual human relief aid that your country provides… and the “strong and unwavering” diplomatic support, and it would be pitiful, that after all this gloating, you come up so short… but that seems to be the ALGERIAN STAMP
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All My Loving
0 #33 Ego or Honour? Maybe DuplicityAll My Loving 2013-02-16 02:01
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Lamine
0 #34 RE: Algeria: Current Policies Hinder Regional DevelopmentLamine 2013-02-16 03:00
Haras your points are

-Palestinians support Morocco over Polisario
-Bouteflika would have closed borders

Give me one example (that is all I ask)
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Oh Darling!
0 #35 A Must ReadOh Darling! 2013-02-16 11:26 Quote | Report
 
 
haras
0 #36 to Algerianharas 2013-02-16 12:19
It is a travesty to use a quote by Mark Twain about stupidity... then follow with a youtube on the creation of the state of Palestine... on paper... yes that was the plan in 1988

and regarding Palestine, I told you before and I am repeting, since it seems "Bitikrar Yata3alamou al*****", what are exact weapons and training you provided for the Palestinians MILITANTS, or better yet, can you provide us with the number of Israeli soldiers that your army killed or captured, in one of them many battles where you engaged them…"wink wink"

Deafening silence.... it must hurt to find out that after all this Algerian gloating Palestine this Palestine that, you have absolutely nothing to show up for...
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haras
0 #37 to Lamineharas 2013-02-16 21:05
I made many points, you just picked what you ignored...

For Palestinians supporting Morocco over the sahara, go and check why South Africa didn't recognize polisario until the death of Yasser Arafat... hint: it was a personal favor from Mandela to Arafat

For Bouteflika "closing borders", you certainly didn't mean "closing borders with morocco", you are referring to closing the tunnels between Gaza and Sinai, you can check the authenticity of that in a cable in wikileaks, as to why he said it, I have no clue...

For me the main issue, is that Algerian officials are making Algerians believe that their country is the best ally of Palestinians, in the world, yet, at the same time, all Algeria is in fact providing to Palestinians is some financial support that is of course below what every country in the golf, no matter how small, is providing, and a political support, that is proportional to the importance of Algerian diplomacy, and that is directed to Hamas, especially, which is funny, because the same Algeria is fighting Islamists, in Algeria and even in the Sahel...

In the same importance, Algerian officials are supporting behind closed doors that their proxy-war with Morocco, in the Sahara, is part of a "global strategy against Israel", but then again, shouldn't that fight against the closest allies of Israel, if not focus, at least start at the most obvious allies of Israel... the US and Europe come to mind...

Yet the most astonishing fact for me, is that, for all the talk, Algeria does not contribute to the fight in an operative way, (please show me wrong if you can), by arming, training or providing any operative element of support... to Hamas or any other Palestinian faction...
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S Hass
0 #38 TzairiaS Hass 2013-02-17 17:25
I have a question to all our Tzairia haraga who are staying illegally on MB. WHERE DO YO U THINK YOUR $200 BILLION IS DEPOSITED AND INVESTED ? U see after all you do support Israel, big time!!! Please analyze what i said . thank you
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