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Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In Region

San Francisco /  Morocco News  Board --  Both Morocco and Algeria have not yet reached a level of sustainable economic development which should be reflected on the well being of their sustainable social development, whereas the majority of both the Moroccan and Algerian populations are enjoying the adequate minimum delivery and availability of requirements in housing, education, training, employment, food, clothing, health maintenance systems, recreational facilities and physical fitness.

Although both countries Gross National Products have doubled since 2004 reaching for Algeria 301 billion dollars and for Morocco 100 billion dollars, the indicators of socio-economic development for both populations are far too low and leave a lot to be desired by the peoples of both countries who wants to see change in their life time.

Both countries have an abundance of young people who can be harnessed and are ready to participate in reaching the long hoped for and sought after sustainable economic development. Both countries have abundant resources and both countries have people with brains who have and continue to figure out how to navigate towards sustainable economic development in spite of the outside medling in their ability to grow their economies and in spite of the harsh terms of society imposes on them.

Why is the Algerian leadership so antagonistic to Morocco’s territorial integrity? Instead of loosening the tight knot it has put around the neck of its population and planting seeds of hate towards Morocco based on fear mongering and by presenting Morocco, as a malicious neighbor with  evil intentions towards Algeria, the Algerian leadership is currently supporting a large scale propaganda machine against Morocco.  It is clear that the Algerian people have been subjected by all types of "info" showing Morocco as the aggressor and the “Neighbor to hate”. Of course, not all the Algerians are buying into  these attempted manipulations.
 
 
The Algerian leadership is fully aware that the Moroccans and their King will not give up the [Western] Sahara.  Why does not the Algerian leadership withdraw its support for the separatists Polisario Front that it has propted for years and free up the Sahrawi detained in the Tindouf camps?  Some alluded to the notion that the Algerian leadership will not do that because of their "pride”, while others  alluded to the notion that Algeria is a major regional power which means it can do what it wants in the region. It can even create an artificial republic on Moroccan territory.  What a reckless audacity, lack of guidance and lack of political vision! This type of behavior is suicidal to the Algerian leadership! 
 
The foundation of peace in the region is sustained economic development which benefits the largest segment of the population in both countries.  If the Algerian leadership continues in its policy path and its illusion  of being a "major regional power", it may find itself in a mess if Morocco decides to launch its historical tribal extension strategy which dates back to the time of the Mourabitin dynasty and was extended by the Alawite dynasty.  This means that Morocco, Mauretania, Mali, Niger, Chad and Senegal will form an economic and political federation to create sustainable economic development for their people.  The southern tribal population of Morocco is the natural extension of the tribal populations in Mauretania, Mali, Niger, Chad and Senegal may they be Senhaja, Fulani, Mandingo, Bambara,Tuareg or others.  The Mourabitaim, Saadin and Alwite dynasties find all their roots in the populations of these regions of the world. As a historical fact, Timbuktu used to be the southern capital of the Mourabitin dynasty. It is extremely natural that these populations embark on a strategy to engage in sustainable economic development for their well being.  Algeria should be welcomed to join and play a positive role to contribute to the attainment of sustainable economic development in the region.  If it does not, it will be isolated! 

Comments (39)  

 
Morcelli
0 #1 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionMorcelli 2013-02-21 22:44
Thanks Chtaini,


According to Algerian journalist Kamel Daoud, the Algerian public knows of the Western Sahara conflict through the lens of regime-controll ed television and print media. Yet few Algerians understand why they support this “cause.” See Kamel Daoud, “Comment les Algériens voient le reste du monde,” Slate Afrique, July 24, 2012.

www.slateafrique.com/91293/comment-les-algeriens-se-representent-le-monde

I recommend that our friends next door read it but the best part of the article is this one:

Le Maroc. Les frontières fermées en 1994 et les souvenirs flous de la guerre des Sables (guerre frontalière qui a opposé le Maroc et l’Algérie, en 1963, à Tindouf et Béchar) de Hassan II ont fini par inculquer aux Algériens l’idée que c’est un pays adverse.

Sur la carte, c’est écrit: «Ils nous détestent», à la place du nom générique du Maroc. Du coup, un peu plus bas, c’est le Polisario. Les Algériens en connaissent le nom et c’est tout.

C’est une affaire du régime, il la traite comme une cause nationale et personnelle dans sa télé et oblige les journaux à dire de même.

Donc, les Algériens connaissent le nom de ce pays mais rien de plus, ni pourquoi ils soutiennent cette «cause». Ni par qui il est habité, ni s’il existe vraiment, ni ce que l’on peut y visiter, rencontrer, manger. Rien de rien.

The regular Algerian does not really care about the Sahara, the Polisario, and what have you. It's the old gard who are still running that country who made the Sahara a personnel issue between them and the monarchy.

I have no doubt in my mind that the Algerians that frequent MB thanks to MB are agents of the Algerian regime, some are paid and others are not.

The Algerian leadership spends a big portion of their budget on defeating Morocco and those you see here are the product of the regime. They will deny it and they will tell you that they are here to defend their country. How can they say that they defend they country but going after Morocco non stop and in every news article?

Chtaini, Your previous post was very conciliatory and you have seen how they attacked you, these people are not for peace, it is in their interest to keep the problem alive.

As you know I have many disagreement with how our government run things but when it come to the Sahara, i sympathize with the Moroccan government. We are dealing with an ancient mentality.
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Tewfik Boulenouar
-2 #2 ConsultantTewfik Boulenouar 2013-02-22 02:42
Greetings,
I guess it would be a waste of time to try to convince that I am neither an agent of the Algerian regime or paid by it. That being said, among what you call regular Algerians, there is the strong feeling that Morocco will always have territorial ambitions at the expense of its neighbors. Why? Nature of its monarchy. As for the cabal that runs Algeria? Well eventually they may end up too senile to run a country and will die off, replaced by a new leadership that may view things differently one would hope. I am of the opinion that as long as there is a monarchy in Morocco and that the constant criticism of Algeria and Algerians continues, good fences will make good neighbors and that the borders should remain closed.
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haras
+5 #3 Dear Tewfikharas 2013-02-22 10:11
Let's agree to disagree, about "territorial ambitions" and "Monarchy", that's one way to put it. When seeking the King of Morocco's help, the leaders of the Algerian Revolution promised a lot of things, the least of which is that Tindouf and Bechar will be returned to Morocco, you can check your former president (BEN BELLA) testimony on Al Jazeera, where he was asked about that specific agreement, his answer was simply that it was "not written", as in we played you, since then the Algerian politics is about that, who plays who, you know that you've been played when you end up 6 feet under.

You are doing the same thing, "change the regime if you want us to be nice to you", really, just that, why don’t you start by changing the regime in Algeria, not that your people haven’t tried, turns out, the only pact the Algerian current apparatus is capable of honoring is to stay in power, true they are getting old, but if you follow the news, you’ll know that the replacement is even worse…

I’d like to believe your promises, there is only one problem, I keep remembering Boudiaf and how they eluded him into thinking that they will stay by his side no matter what, if only he accepted to be the Savior, another time, of his Algeria,…, then he met Belkacem, Khider and the others…
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Morcelli
0 #4 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionMorcelli 2013-02-22 10:32
Mr. Tewfik,
I completely agree with you that the borders should remain closed and for eternity I am add. If you have ever seen my comments under other name here, you would already know my opinion about the borders, I merely copied here what the Algerian journalist have stated.

There is too much blood between both our countries, and you don't just wipe out a half century of hate and disdain by opening borders. I am not sure that either Morocco or Algeria would benefit from opening these borders. Morocco needs to do it without relying on Algerian dinars. What I am advocating for is the Moroccan Sahara that your regime and you as you ambiguously stated think that they will put down the kingdom with their ancient thoughts and hope that they will erect a pseudo country in our country.
The idea might have been great in the 60s, 70s, but no more.
Algeria can acquire every single used Russian weapon on the planet but like I said to your agent friends, your refineries are seen with a simple Google earth search.

This does not mean that Morocco will attack Algeria or Algeria will attack Morocco, this is to tell you that neither Algeria nor Morocco can defeat the other, The Moroccans know this fact, the Algerians still hoping to be the winners.

There will never be a winner between us, We are both losing, and if you are smart enough you will know this fact.

What I like to say to the non Algerian agents here that the Sahara is not only a monarchical issue, it is a National issue and every Moroccan breads, sleeps, , and dreams the Moroccan Sahara. Algeria will never get to be the leader of North Africa, they will always be TWO leaders Algeria and Morocco if we don't nuke each other 50 years from now.


You are wrong that the kingdom of Morocco has any claim on Algeria, if you know your history, we already solved the problem when Algeria gained its independence. Morocco is however adamant that Algeria will never ever hold us hostage with keeping the Sahara issue alive.

And Lastly, Morocco of today is not the Morocco of Hassan II, Algeria of today is exactly the Algeria of 60s,70s,80s,90s ...today and your ancient leaders do not see that your population is too young to be at the mercy of Bouteflika and alike and eventually things will blow up in their face but don't take my word for it.

Now I am ready for the nitwits to follow your comment.
Bring it on!
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Oh Darling!
-3 #5 Nif? Pride? Generals? Bitchers?Oh Darling! 2013-02-22 10:42
When really pushed against the wall some Moroccan brothers out of arguments resort to insults, lies, accusations.

I do not know if there are amongst Algerians commenting on MB people who are belonging to DRS or paid, if this is the case I can only agree, as Moroccans consider Algeria as their ennemy and they would do anything to get them into trouble.

No other media in the world, even the French ones, bashes Algeria the way MB does it.

So my salam to DRS if you fight the propaganda at its spring.

The other thing they do Moroccans, especially when Algerians ask them to explain their entire submission to Israel, they respond you have nif, pride. No sir, this politics, geopolitics, that is why I write here that Morocco is not a serious partener, do your basics and come back.

Has anyone heard about they way general Oufkir, with the green light of Hassan 2, used to slaughter the riffis? I leave this for Clown Warlus to qualify it.

Other than that Mr. Chtaini, Algeria does not consider Western Shara as part of Morocco, hense ALgerian's whole attitude.
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Algerian
-2 #6 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-22 11:29
Well, according to the UN. The Western Sahara is the last remaining colony in Africa.

If its an Algerian Moroccan conflict, how come you guys signed a cease fire with Polisario, a cease fire that stipulated that independence is an option, and i don't remember seeing Algeria's signature on that document. How about the Manhasset I, II, III and IV were they between Algeria and Morocco?

The thing is that you guys can not have it both ways, if you guys
wanted that land you should have fought for it harder, should have never accepted a cease fire, should have never gave half of it to Mauritania, should have never built a wall to hide behind it......well hell, you should have started a war with Algeria to punish it for its support, so dear sir, try to get your fact straight before posting such......thing s.
What amazes me is how most Moroccan talk about The Western Sahara as if the whole world recognizes its sovereignty over the territory except for Algeria, wake up people not a single country in the world recognizes The WS. as being part of Morocco.

My favorite part "If the Algerian leadership continues in its policy path and its illusion of being a "major regional power", it may find itself in a mess if Morocco decides to launch its historical tribal extension strategy which dates back to the time of the Mourabitin dynasty and was extended by the Alawite dynasty. This means that Morocco, Mauretania, Mali, Niger, Chad and Senegal will form an economic and political federation to create sustainable economic development for their people."
With all due respect Mr. Chtani, Algeria is a regional power whether you like it or not, and that's geographically, politically, militarily and economically and as for your threat of Morocco"Morocco decides to launch its historical tribal extension strategy which dates back to the time of the Mourabitin dynasty and was extended by the Alawite dynasty. This means that Morocco, Mauretania, Mali, Niger, Chad and Senegal"
Now, that's a good one, dear sir dont takes your dreams for reality, what are we going to call it ? the confederation of penniless states ? What would Morocco gain from such move? bUT PLEASE, pursue that strategy, i beg you to pursue it and leave us alone because as your politicians know, we do not need Morocco but economically, you guys do need us and until the day we can have a win win relation, the borders will remain close despite your begging/ hate approach.
In other words, you guys will have to bring something to the table. A country that not long ago had only enough foreign reserve currency to feed its people for 3 months can not really pretend to be a viable partner that would bring something new to the table and as they say around here ""There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
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Samir
+4 #7 The Power of RealitySamir 2013-02-22 17:34
It is a very telling phenomenon that some Algerians claim to be a "regional Power"
This is such an unrealistic claim and is such a contradiction with reality that it calls close examination to some Algerians mental state...
For a starter, has anyone seen or heard for a power closing its own borders. This happens in only paranoid and insecure states like North Korea... and Algeria.
A Regional power is not subject to terrorist attacks on a daily basis, like Algeria is.
The world has watched one of most botched rescue attempts undertaken by the oh! most proud, and most dysfunctional Algerian Security forces!
To be a "power" the very first thing that needs squared away is to establish security in YOUR OWN TERRITORY.
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haras
+6 #8 Back at youharas 2013-02-22 18:29
Oh hating

Get your facts straight, the UN declares the (Western) Sahara as a non self governing territory...

We are in the Sahara and we will stay there, until your oil is gone, and we will then have another discussion... or maybe not... yes our soldiers are safe behind a wall, it beats the hell of been in In Amenas...

You talk about Oufkir and the RIF, when was that again, oh right, that was the 50s, yet, it didn't stop your guys from begging the same king and the same general for help... at the time the QG was still in Oujda, allah yn3al li mayhsham...

I have one question for you though, how many people were killed in the uprising in the RIF, try and compare that to the number of people killed over the years, some in Algeria and others in Frankfurt and in Spain... wink wink...

It must heart to see that your country is so rich in resources, yet so poor in leadership...

Please keep your borders closed and in the sake of consistency, stay away from MOROCCOboard, then again, since when is consistency an Algerian tradition
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Aziz El Alami
+1 #9 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAziz El Alami 2013-02-22 18:56
The Moroccan and Algerian Leaders and Policy Planners face new challenges – Their efforts to persuade and convince their respective audiences to buy in and support their propaganda have become a little bit complicated: Thanks to global media, including MB, their rhetoric has to now be presented, argued and defended in public discourse – This makes it a little bit harder for them to conceal their hidden agendas.

It is my belief that, the Moroccan and Algerian PUBLIC has had enough of this never-ending imbroglio.

It’s really not that complicated to solve this multi-decade old “conflict”. All both parties have to do is change the way they view each other - It’s really that simple. Both countries need to view one another as a potential business partner rather than an imminent threat. As Mr. Chtaini eloquently alluded to, our combined resources are adequate enough for a “good enough” economical sustainability for both countries -- and a huge potential for prosperity.

Now – can we all just sing Lagnaoui Sidi Mimoun and call it a day?
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Tewfik Boulenouar
0 #10 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionTewfik Boulenouar 2013-02-23 06:42
We are not a regional power. I do think that trying to assume the mantle of being a regional power is a worthless pursuit in our part of the world and in our culture unfortunately. With power comes responsibilitie s and wisdom; neither qualities are being visited on our respective "leaderships". As for a war between Algeria and Morocco? That would be a tragedy, a crime. Call me paranoid, but I truly believe that since there is a logjam in the Western Sahara and unresolved border issues, add to this the venom that gets injected daily by BOTH parties, a conflict is inevitable. And yes, I believe that eventually Morocco will attack Algeria to "de crisp" the situation and force a settlement of sorts. It is like the San Andreas fault, tensions have been building and it will give way. Now when it comes to the Western Sahara, it is none of our business but I would disagree with Mr. Haras about the coming generation; I follow the news and development very closely and most people are looking in the wrong direction and at the wrong group when it comes to who will take over. There may be some surprises as they are hiding in plain sight and bidding their time.
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S Hass
+2 #11 Tzair & TzairiaS Hass 2013-02-23 07:11
i just wonder if these poor Tzaria parrots get a kicking ( pleasure ) of being humiliated and insulted . Whenever i recall what that French ex interior minister did with his arm to show what he thought of the Tzairia i think they do really enjoy to be the village idiots
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Tewfik Boulenouar
-1 #12 HospitalityTewfik Boulenouar 2013-02-23 07:20
I feel the need to add something: One would be hard pressed to find a people as generous and as hospitable as the Moroccan people. It is legendary. And yes we do owe a great debt of gratitude to Mohamed V (may in rest in peace). I am a frustrated progressive who views the leadership of both our nations as being shortsighted, repressive and uncaring as well as corrupt and no, I do not wish our government on anyone.
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Oh Darling!
0 #13 If you don't behaveOh Darling! 2013-02-23 12:33
Hey there, if you do not behave, we will send you one Egyptian and he will deal with all of you. SO beware

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Morcelli
0 #14 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionMorcelli 2013-02-23 14:34
Tewfik Boulenouar,

You so different from the other agents, but at the same time you are as you yourself acknowledged paranoid. You hate the Moroccan monarchy and you believe that Morocco will eventually attack Algeria. Ridiculous!

I will be the first one to side with Algeria if Morocco even think about such a crazy scenario, Morocco has no intention nor capability to do so my friend. We have 35 million to feed and and that's the concern on everyone's mind. We need to lower unemployment, fix our corrupt judicial system, we need more schools and more hospitals and we need to end the cold war between Algeria and Morocco and it does not have to include opening the borders.

I am one of those few who believe that Morocco and Algeria are too far apart to come to any friendship at this time. The borders should remain closed forever and if for any miracle Algeria decides to change course, we are ready to listen.

As of now and as you have stated yourself, your leadership needs to change. Ours is changing, slowly but it is changing, We have a king who just a year ago was God, he is now forced to share his reign with Physics teacher and a psychologist. This is unheard of. Eventually Moroccan kings will rule but will not govern as L'espagnole.

Algeria's Bouteflika was running the show in the 60s and 50 years later he is still there and now there so much going on behind the scene to reelect him for another 6 years and the sad part is that there is ZERO opposition in Algeria to this eventual happening.
The civil was in Algeria decimated the Algerians and I hope that one day, Algerians wake up and start thinking 21st century instead of 60's and 70s.

Keep commenting please you are certainly a breath of fresh air hopefully the other agents can learn a thing or two from you.
We disagree but at least you speak your mind and you do not sound like a mouthpiece of APS. The other agents are boring me to death here, I just want them to come up with something different and new, but sadly it ain't happening.
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Algerian
0 #15 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-23 16:21
"أخبار اليوم المغربية" نشرت أن الهولدينغ الملكي قد ضخ ما قيمته 900 مليون دولار من العملة الصعبة في خزينة الدولة، وهي تعادل 25% من العجز المسجل في احتياطات المغرب من العملة الصعبة، خاصة مع نقص السيولة التي تعانيها خزائن البنوك.

http://hespress.com/medias/73223.html

No comments !!!
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Tewfik Boulenouar
+3 #16 DialogueTewfik Boulenouar 2013-02-23 19:38
Dear Morcelli,
Thank you for the kind words. I am glad that we are able to have a civil discourse. How we came about to have such bitter and angry comments thrown at each other baffles me. There has to be some dialogue that would bypass political institutions. I am not a religious man but my grandfathers were, and they use to travel to Morocco and Tunisia to visit their Shaikhs as they belonged to Sufi brotherhoods. We have much more in common than what separates us: The Amazigh culture and population (genetically), music, untapped brain power. We are North Africans, a culture apart from the rest of the Arab World and have a different temperament than our brothers and sisters east of the Nile. Now, I would be re-missed if,for the sake of transparency, I did not share with you and the members of this board some personal information;
1.I was born in Casablanca Morocco of Algerian parents during the early 50's at the beginning of the Algerian revolution. The first 9 years of my life were spent in Morocco until the independence
2. My father was wanted by the French "Deuxieme Bureau" and had to flee.
3. When my parents and my older sister arrived in Morocco they were instantly protected by the late Mohamed V (may he rest in peace) and given Moroccan passports. King or not a king, Mohamed V was a truly noble, wise and courageous man. In our house in Casa the only 3 photographs on the wall were one of Mohamed V, one of Abdel Nasser and one of the Emir AbdelKader.
4. My family arrived in Morocco with nothing but clothes on their backs and were sheltered by regular Moroccans until they got their feet on the ground. Some things you do not forget.
5. I have witnessed regular Moroccans giving away jewelry so as to support the Algerian war effort.
6. My father worked in Nouacer US Air Force Base, as he spoke fluent English and was the liaison as well as chief of personnel for the non-us workers on the base.
7. Then he was chief of personnel at the Volvo factory (owned by the Benjelloun family). He was well liked.
The reason I am laying myself bare is because I do want you to understand that I know Morocco very well and that the regression that happened between our two people is a horrible happenstance. Furthermore, I do not "hate" the Monarchy. Hate is a very loaded word and I do not hate anybody. I do not support Monarchies in our part of the world as they are unconstitutiona l and they are surrounded by a self perpetuating court of corrupt very dangerous sycophants. There is a medieval mindset pervading such "entourages". If it was a constitutional monarchy a la "Juan of Spain" I would feel differently. Therein lies my paranoia, something is about to break. The pouvoir and, interestingly enough, even a majority of Algerians feel like if Morocco gets its way with the Western Sahara, it will be emboldened to seek more territories. Right or wrong theory is not the point because it is the paradigm in which we are operating at the moment.
The Algerian leadership and its "entourage", the mysterious "pouvoir" is not any different, it is quite deadly, infinitely corrupt and oppressive. I wish we did not have oil. It is a curse. As for the Algerian people we are beaten up, tired and weary but there will be changes as rebellion is part of our legacy. And so it is extremely important, in my humble opinion that a dialogue of the people by people who are genuinely interested in the welfare of their brethren be fostered. In this day of digital media, closed physical frontiers are an impediment of course but not insurmountable. We should not appeal to our lowest nature but connect at all levels (academic, artistic, spiritual,econo mically if allowed) as regimes come and go but we the people of North Africa have to live, prosper and not just endure.
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S Hass
+1 #17 Tzair & TzairiaS Hass 2013-02-24 09:09
This Tzairi parrot has not head that yesterday Great Britain has lost it AAA rating due to it economic hardship along side France America etc... Morocco in comparison is a small fish So i do not really see how this pea brain of this parrot works!!!! The Tzair Mafia gov apparently are not fimillar with business so they did ask the Qataris to help them to invest the money which is stuck in the west ( and is going down fast due to inflation ), the Qataris of course refused, most likely in orders of the west . so the money is going down and only invested in buying useless arms
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Morcelli
0 #18 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionMorcelli 2013-02-24 22:13
Dear Tewfik.
It sounds like yhave had a fascinating life and I appreciate very much that you were able to share with us.
You are truly a breath of fresh air when we have one Algerian after the other coming here to champion those who are holding the Maghreb hostage, those who separate us, those who have a 50 years old vendetta to settle, you can't help but realize that they are hired agents of the powers ruling your beautiful country and beautiful people.

I too have something to share, in my early 20s I met many Algerians in Soccer pick up games and let me tell you, true gentlemen on and off the field besides great soccer players. Our favorite hangout is Chez Pierre, an "arabized" french gentleman from the country side of France married to Algerian woman and that's where I met Samira, my Algerian soul mate at the time, without going through the details, through Samira I was lucky to meet many Algerians and we used to talk about our home countries and there was never anything similar to what we see in this board. We knew where we stand and they knew where they stand. We were no better one from the other. There was never this " we are better than you, we have more oil and nuclear technology, we have more fancy hotels" and all this infantile bickering we see here.

Lastly, you and I and many others here should not fall into the farce that Morocco wants a piece of Algeria and therefore we should keep them busy with the Sahara.
As I said Morocco has zero power to even think about such an insaneness and let's for some odd reason say that is true, name one country on this earth that would support such an indulgence on our part.

Rest assured that Moroccans have many mountains to climb and many roads to build to even think about going after Algeria that we consider integral including Tindouf and Bechar.

Mr Tewik, we might disagree but at least I don't feel any sens of disdain as I do when your compatriots visit MB with their incessant copying and pasting from google search.

I am sure that my Moroccan friends would be hard pressed to disagree.
Cordially.
Morcelli.
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Oh Darling!
0 #19 Facebook not MBOh Darling! 2013-02-25 08:35
Clown Warlus is criticising the very object of MoroccoBoard, its mission and its objectives. If 365 days a year MB bashes Algeria what do you expect Algerians will do?

They will respond.

Why do they respond? Becuase they think MoroccoBoard is biased. It's so common to tell stories about deep human relations uniting Algeria and Morocco, most Algerians and Moroccans can tell loads of them.

Now there is a problem as well and it is a big one, despite the real brotherhood and friendship uniting the two people, each of them is attached to the interests of its country and would like to defend them in the best way - not necessarily being agressive or rude...

SO MoroccoBoard is an fighting arena because its owners wanted it to be an arena. I will never expect to receive flowers when going to an arena.

I am sure there is plenty of place of peaceful and clever exchanges between Moroccans and ALgerians: set up a facebook page dedicated to that purpose or even create a blog to promote la detente.

There is a third way: admit what the propblems are and investigate solutions which could benefit the two nations. Writing this beeing fully aware that Morocco has nothing to offer to Algeria but Algeria is still willing to accept that if Morocco engages in a serious solution for the Western Sahara.

I agree with what has been said : both countries are two weak and entangled a various difficulties, I agree that anyone thinking about a war between Algeria and Morocco is not only an ignorant idiot, but also a guilty soul in front of history, humanity and civilisation.

There is no winner in a war. Both countries were victims of grand plans of big players - this is the saddest thing and the most difficult problem to overcome.

Anyway, there seems to be no propect of a near normalisation between Rabat and Algiers, so the virtual fight will carry on as long as MoroccoBoard bashes Algeria and as long as ALgerians are enabled to respond.

As for me, Goodbye ALL, this is my last post.
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haras
+4 #20 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In Regionharas 2013-02-25 09:16
Mr Tewfik,

The fact of the matter is that all you lay down is history, you are praised for coming forward and laying it down, but many Algerians prefer to forget it.

The Official Algeria, the part of Algeria we have problems with, wants us to believe that Algerians are “stuck” in the 1963 and “hgartouna” mindset, they don’t shy from defending an Algerian, a grown man, kissing the hand of the French president, as his free and own decision; Kind of strange isn’t it that the same Algerians that can find it in their hearts to forgive France, have a different view when it comes to Morocco, and its alleged aggression of Algeria, it is a different story? Try and imagine for one moment that the hand was that of the Moroccan King, the guy would have been certainly lynched and we would have had a different “plaidoyer” from the parrots on MB.

The problem with Algeria is that its bad leadership goes beyond its borders; maybe the people running the show are trying to overcompensate for the fact that they were wearing the French uniform when others were fighting for the freedom of Algeria, suddenly they are in power and they became concerned with Algeria’s “regional status” and advocate a simple recipe, weaken all surrounding countries.

The discussion regarding the monarchy is an in-house issue, not that you or anyone else are not invited to give your point of view, especially that you show a tremendous perception of the troubles of having a court. But, for all their flaws, Moroccan kings have always had an indisputable quality, that of trying to keep their tantrums within the borders of their country, or kingdom, but we can’t say the same about the opposite side, especially Boumediane, or his twin Gadhafi?

Gadhafi was playing the same role in the Sahel and in many other countries in the Sub Sahara… he enjoyed putting countries and populations against each other, it was his way of gaining a status of deal breaker, and king of kings of Africa, his end was not royal though…

True Algerian patriots, like yourself, no matter what their affiliation is, have a clear stand on where things should be between Morocco and Algeria, especially on the Sahara issue. That includes Ben Bella who announced on Al Jazeera, clearly and plainly, that the Sahara is Moroccan and that Algeria should get out of the way. That also includes Chadli BenJdid, who was one of the enthusiasts for the Maghreb Union, and through his many meetings with Hassan II, understood the falsehood of all the theories on Moroccan expansionism. Former President Boudiaf was also an advocate for good relations with Morocco, the same lifelong stand of his brother in arms Houcine Ait Ahmed. Abassi Madani won the elections when his first stated foreign policy item was to get rid of polisario and establish brotherly relations with Morocco, and Louisa Hanoune has always said that bothering Morocco is not going to make Algeria better.

Finally, and this one is particularly directed at people advocating for a regional leader “status”, a real leader is one that makes the others depend on him, not one that who starts fires in the neighborhood, then closes his or her borders, by doing so, they allow the others to gain independency or invite other powers that will fill the void…

I hope as you said that the new generation in Algeria will be able to reach a new deal where the people’s voice is heard and their will is respected, I have no doubt that by then, many of the problems that are holding us back will be resolved forever, for the very simple reason that it wouldn’t stand any test of rationality… it will allow Algerians to improve their lives, and Moroccans to go back to more urgent matters, like speeding up the renovation of their Monarchy…
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Morcelli
0 #21 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionMorcelli 2013-02-25 11:55
Good riddance!
When the Angels (Tewfik and alike)arrive, the devils leave.
Here is something for you to keep yourself bust with, When the Algerian leadership enter into serious negotiations with the Kabylies, we'll do the same with Polisario. A deal?

Some Algerians might say that's not in your business, Kabylie is an internal issue, and I would reply, I agree but isn't the Sahara is not an internal issue?

Let me tell you something we usually call stray cats in Moroccco. TSAB!TSAB! mashya bla raj3a


www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/02/201321913479263624.html
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Oh Darling!
0 #22 Angry Clown WarlusOh Darling! 2013-02-25 17:09
You are the kind of Moroccan who has romantic approach to geopolitics. Yo like to hear from Algerians that Morocco and Moroccans are really special, good, ect.

This can only be an attitude of a frustrated and failed person.

Even if the 90% or Moroccans threw flows at Algeria and Algerians I will still belive that there is a problem that needs to be solved and the worst attitude to adopt is to compromise oneself in some sort idiotic, childish approach to geopolitics. You need to grow up buddy.

Kabylie, this post is from a Kabylian and a comparison that would be mre suitable is to compare Kabyie to Riff: Abdelkrim created a a Riffi Republic in 1922...

What is your problem with Polisario? You have been discussing with them for years, they gave you hard time in a war that ruined Morocco, the money you spent in WS could have reduced the illiteracy rate in Morocco drastically?

Polisario, Western Sahara you need to consdier them a reality instaed of being overwhelmed by some post from an ALgerian who lived in Morocco. You need to grow up, really.

What a clown you make. I remember a few months ago when you had some good thinking even people on this forum accused you of being ALgerian, adn to fight back you had some mysogenistic comment towards a lady. I had to defend you, all I can remmeber no other Moroccan supported you.

Where is the spirit of chivalery, of islam or just being a gentlmen. I tell you what, you have absolutely gone nuts over the Western Sahara.

Polisario, Western Sahara
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haras
+7 #23 to Oh hatingharas 2013-02-25 19:28
As for polisario, it’s been 20 some years and counting, and we are still “talking”, turns out we like to talk, you can have fun with it, but they are not, their families are torn, their life is miserable, they lost so many of their brothers , fathers and sons, all of it, just so that you can claim to master “geopolitics”, you don’t know zilch about geopolitics, where was geopolitics when you were begging for help to liberate your country, I guess you were a Harky then…

Abdelkrim? it’s Ben Abdlkrim you Moron as in Mohamed Ben Abdelkrim, he was a Moroccan and his sons and grandsons are still in Morocco, where are the sons of Boudiaf??? and the sons of Belkacem, and those of Khider? Where is Houcine Ait Ahmed?

Ben Abdlkrim created his republic in 1922? it didn’t stop you from imploring shelter and support from Mohamed V, in 1956? I guess it was part of your “geopolitics”, people use to call that ungratefulness, so please don’t come here and start us on “spirit of chivalry, of islam or just being a gentlemen”, really, islam, you son of harky…

As for the literacy rate, you need to ask yourself a simple question, what’s the point in been educated if you can’t write a simple post where you don’t contradict yourself every step of the way, like advocating the spirit of Islam to others, yet using something like “geopolitics” as an justification of your country’s deviant and failed ambitions…

and while you are laughing at the sahara, remember the 250,000 butchered in Algeria, and remember Boudiaf ...
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riffi
+2 #24 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In Regionriffi 2013-02-25 23:49
Harass I will help you and also I will help oh!dear darling. Do you know the majority of Emir Abdelkader family live in Rabat and Casablanca. Is that tell you something about geo zaatar.
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Tewfik Boulenouar
0 #25 RealismTewfik Boulenouar 2013-02-26 00:10
Hello,
Not for a minute should anyone think that
I am a wide eyed utopian. I am very much a political realist who has esteem for his fellow human beings, who has great faith in the strength of the human spirit as well. The understanding that Geo-politic is based on very cold and ruthless assessments of the ratio of forces and nationalistic self interests. That being said, we need to have a frank open dialogue that does not allow for the festering of abscesses; a condition we are all too familiar with in our culture, we dwell so much on the past that we are forfeiting the coming age. Sitting in front of someone with whom you have a belligerent state of affairs going and negotiate takes emotional maturity, a willingness to not dwell on the past and have a vision of the potential benefits. This is one of the many reasons why we are behind and lagging in economic and social development in both our countries. It is a horrible mind set to have, a very morose dark universe. "Cartes sur table sans la haine". Regardless of your opinion of me; do not expect me to debase my interlocutors and throw invectives. We need to be civil, firm in our beliefs discuss openly and understand that
"compromise" is not a dirty word: future generations depend on it and time is of the essence in this digital world.
Best regards to ALL.
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Oh Darling!
-2 #26 Well done Mr. BoulenouarOh Darling! 2013-02-26 02:19
My post was not aimed at at you, it was aimed at Morecelli. You are too good, your approach is what we need Quote:
"Cartes sur table sans la haine"
This is what I am trying to put forward here, but you will soon realise that you have frustrated, integrists, extremists people.

The only idea that will accept from you is to agree with them. Even you if let's say you start to write Western Sahara is an issue that needs to be solved, they will insult you, they did it againts Morcelli a staunch Moroccan who only once criticised some oldfashionned behaviours the monarchy, dirt was thrown at him, and he was accused of being ALgerian.

I hope you have psychatric skills, otherwise good luck to you. If you are a realistic person if you have a logic mind, if you have principles, you will get in return insults, coward and responses
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Morcelli
+3 #27 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionMorcelli 2013-02-26 11:49
Morocco has been asking the Algerians to come to the table for ever now. Algeria's reply? We have oil, our civil war is fading and we do not need you, We are not benefiting from Morocco.


Algerians think that keeping Morocco worried about the Sahara will give them an edge to get the power they have been seeking for 50 years. There is problem there, it is not in the interest of the west and particularly France to have Algeria be the tutor of North Africa and the Sahel. A good example, France did not wait to act on Mali, they did it themselves without the UN.

The US will not tolerate an Algerian power in North Africa when they know that Morocco are more receptive to their demands.

Spain would not want to weaken Morocco and they know that it is in their interest to keep Morocco and Algeria fighting in order for us not to catch up and besides the more we fight the better oil deal they get from the Algerians.

This is not something I am coming up with to get the apprehend on the agents here. These are undeniable facts that the agents have been asking for and will never accept.

Here is something for the agents here:

We know that Algeria is doing the impossible to support the Polisario. right?

I challenge you agents to tell us what is Morocco doing to hurt Algeria. Who knows? maybe there is something down your throats that we do not know.

One condition: Be a man with nif and do not mention la guerre des sables, 94 marrakesh bombing, oufkir and Hassan II?
That's the distant past and this is the 21st century.

And for you who keep telling us that I was accused of being Algerian, yes but that was some dumb gal who said that Morcelli is not a Moroccan name according to her Google search and therefore I was Algerian. Claims like these are merely for entertainment and I must admit that I had fun with it calling & "making" myself an Algerian.
So do not generalize.

Let me make it clear for you and the other agents like you. I am not afraid to go against the rulers in Morocco, I will say again and again. I am not very fond of M6 exclusively hiring his friends. I am not very fond of him getting a shadow government who undermines the elected government. Do I want Morocco to continue to be a kingdom? Absolutely, A constitutional monarchy where the king rules and be an arbitrator but not govern. It is good for Morocco the same way it is good for Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark and Australia
It is coming and there is no doubt in my mind that M6 is the last king that will govern. It will be impossible for Morocco to rely on the next king to rule. Moroccans will be mature enough to handle their own.

Many of my Moroccan friends disagree with this notion, either they want the king to stay forever or to go for ever I am in the middle. Time will tell. One thing I am sure of is that we are heading in the right direction. When I see people running the country, I see young people, I don't see ancient rulers from the past. They are dead and in Algeria there Alive and kicking and that is the problem between us, a generational divide.
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Algerian
-2 #28 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-26 18:27
Again and at the risk of repeating my self, the WS is not a bilateral issue beTWEEN our two respective countries its UN issue, or as our foreign ministry spokesman said today "la question du Sahara occidental, et quitte à le répéter indéfiniment, cette question n’a pas de dimension bilatérale et elle ne relève d’aucune soit disant ancienne logique. Elle relève de la seule responsabilité des Nations unies et tout le monde sait, et nos frères marocains les premiers, que la question du Sahara occidental est inscrite depuis fort longtemps sur les tablettes de l’ONU au titre des 16 territoires non autonomes dont le processus de décolonisation est suivi par le Comité spécial chargé d’étudier la situation en ce qui concerne l’application de la Déclaration sur l’octroi de l’indépendance aux pays et aux peuples coloniaux », ajoute M. Belani en réaction aux propos d’Abdelillah Benkirane."
You do know that not a single country in the world recognizes your sovereignty over the territory right?
Please explain to me the following:
- If The WS. is indivisible for the kingdom of Morocco, please explain to me why Morocco agreed to a cease fire that stipulated that INDEPENDENCE can be an option?
-If the WS is an integral part of Morocco, why you guys gave half of it to Mauritenia ?
_ Why are still negotiating with Polisario if Algeria is the problem.
In other words, if you have a problem take up with the UN dont blame Algeria for your shortcomings.

Let examine the legality of your claim:
UN General Assembly Resolution 3292[2] requested that the International Court give an advisory opinion on the following questions:
:I. Was Western Sahara (Río de Oro and Sakiet El Hamra) at the time of colonization by Spain a territory belonging to no one (terra nullius)?
And, should the majority opinion be "no", the following would be addressed:
:II. What were the legal ties between this territory and the Kingdom of Morocco and the Mauritanian entity?

For the former question, the Court decided by a vote of 13 to three that the court could make a decision on the matter, and unanimously voted that at the time of colonization (defined as November 28, 1884), the territory was not terra nullius (that is, the territory, did belong to someone).
For the latter question, the Court decided by a vote of 14 to two that it would decide. It was of the opinion, by 14 votes to two, that there were legal ties of allegiance between this territory and the Kingdom of Morocco. Furthermore, it was of opinion, by 15 votes to one, that there were legal ties between this territory and the "Mauritanian entity". However, the Court defined the nature of these legal ties in the penultimate paragraph of its opinion, and declared that neither legal tie implied sovereignty or rightful ownership over the territory"

How about the WS before 1975? Morocco gain its independence in the 50'S how come Morocco did not try to liberate "his"territorie s from Spain:)?

As you can see, i can debate you all day long, without having to resort to insults and name calling, because al what i need is facts and stats to prove you wrong.

Finally, as i have said, Morocco's policies in regard to the WS. can be summarized in the following saying "“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”
HERE is a Sahrawi song that every " True Sahrawi" would appreciate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Tgyc_zAMQ
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haras
+3 #29 to Algerianharas 2013-02-26 20:52
I'll start where you finished, your argument is the stick I will hit you with,

"How about the WS before 1975? Morocco gain its independence in the 50'S how come Morocco did not try to liberate "his"territorie s from Spain:)?"

It was Moroccan, just like Algeria was Algerian before 1962...

In fact Morocco was colonized by two countries, Spain in the North and South, and France in the middle country...

Most of the country gained its independence in 1956, but Spain was reluctant to give up most of the South in addition to Sebta and Melilia.

Now in the South, tarfaya was returned to Morocco in 1958, thanks to the Libertaion Army, and Sidi Ifni in 1969, through international pressure...

For the rest of the Sahara, Morocco continued its diplomatic efforts, and Morocco (Not the polisario, not Algeria) took it to the International court, and the court was asked to give its answer only on the first question, which came satisfactory to Morocco, it was good enough for us...

Now, one has to ask, what is so special about the Sahara, unlike tarfaya and Sidi Ifni, that made the situation turn into an armed conflict, well, it has borders with ... you guessed it, Algeria... where some lost souls, leftists who were doing their studies in Morocco, as Moroccans, were able to find shelter, support,weapons , training and even hired mercenaries ... all served by Boumediane, before he was poisoned by his entourage of DAF (deserteurs de l'armee francaise) generals, and his buddy Gaddafi, before was lynched like a dog by his own people.

Now back to dividing the Sahara, you have to make a difference between tactics and strategy, the tactics is to get Spain out, the strategy is to get back the whole Sahara, you know that this was our final objective, since when Bouteflika made that same offer through Baker, in 2001, Morocco rejected it...

You can debate all day and that is true, and so can your foreign minister and his spokesman, but your soldiers who lost their souls in AMGALA cannot... allah yn3al li mayhshem...

Finally, to put things in perspective, and also to make a cheap shot at you, the census of 1975 says there was 50,000 sahraouis in the whole sahara in 1974, that's something like 20 or 25 percent of people your generals slaughtered in your own country, and that's what should keep you up at night... when your presidents are killed cowardly... by the harkistes who took back the country that gave up a million of its best sons ... that should keep you up at night... you can debate all day, but BOUDIAF CANNOT...
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Tewfik Boulenouar
+1 #30 Dangerous proposition.Tewfik Boulenouar 2013-02-26 22:53
Hello Board Members,
Being a believer of "Realpolitik" in our part of the world is often not a good thing. So, I am about to make some of my fellow Algerians scream and call me a harky and some of my Moroccan brothers and sisters laugh at my naivete.
This is what I believe: Time to get down to business. The coming generation will be very harsh if we do not get our economic house in order and offer some civil liberties. Let us face it, the concept of a Jeffersonian type of a democracy and republic will have a hard time taking hold but basic respect for human rights, the rights of women, press and free assembly can be achieved but what they want is a better life. Now for the "bad news". I say: lets make a deal. Algeria gives up its attempts to scuttle any arrangement between Morocco and the Sahraouis, does not get in the way of Morocco getting full sovereignty over the Western Sahara and in exchange gets the following: There are great prospects of oil and natural gas in the South Eastern part of Algeria as well as great potential of discoveries in the Taoudeni Basin. How about forming a mixte Moroccan-Algeri an company and build a pipeline that would end in a newly constructed harbor with oil terminals, LNG plants in Dakhla. Everybody wins. And that is just the beginning. It would be a lot cheaper than sending oil all the way north, Mali would also benefit from it.The potentialities are immense. Time to get real. The only people getting richer are the arms dealer.Interest ing link here on the oil potentialities of this basin.
http://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/mali-and-oil-untold-story.php
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Algerian
-2 #31 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-26 23:21
@Haras,

As i have told you in many occasions, i refuse to lower my self to your level, where insults, name calling and cheap propaganda are taken for valid arguments, so i am going to stick to facts.

You said"It was Moroccan, just like Algeria was Algerian before 1962...

"In fact Morocco was colonized by two countries, Spain in the North and South, and France in the middle country...

Most of the country gained its independence in 1956, but Spain was reluctant to give up most of the South in addition to Sebta and Melilia."

Wrong, France made an offer to the FLN in the 50's to get independence without the Algerian Sahara, but we refused and many more "Chohada" fell till we got every single inch of our land, so please do not compare our two situations. Algeria was not considered a colony like Morocco and the rest of Africa were, Algeria was an integral part of France. Algerians did not go cry to the UN...etc. We fought long and hard, till we got what we wanted, and that included Tinduf and Bechar.

You said"For the rest of the Sahara, Morocco continued its diplomatic efforts, and Morocco (Not the polisario, not Algeria) took it to the International court, and the court was asked to give its answer only on the first question, which came satisfactory to Morocco, it was good enough for us..."
Now really:) the Court was given two questions, and it gave an answer to both questions as stated in my previous post and the second part that you decided to ignore was the following"declared that neither legal tie implied sovereignty or rightful ownership over the territory" and as i have said again and again, not a single country recognizes your sovereignty over the territory...... .....not a single one. Just remember that according to the UN and i am quoting "The United Nations considers the former Spanish Sahara a non-self-govern ing territory, with Spain as the formal administrative power and, since the 1970s, Morocco as the current administrative power"
so dear sir, in international disputes, you can not pick and choose a ruling, a ruling is taken as a whole.

you said "Now, one has to ask, what is so special about the Sahara, unlike tarfaya and Sidi Ifni, that made the situation turn into an armed conflict, well, it has borders with ... you guessed it, Algeria... where some lost souls, leftists who were doing their studies in Morocco, as Moroccans, were able to find shelter, support,weapons , training and even hired mercenaries ... all served by Boumediane, before he was poisoned by his entourage of DAF (deserteurs de l'armee francaise) generals, and his buddy Gaddafi, before was lynched like a dog by his own people.
"
Tarfaya and Sidi Ifni are located in the southern edges of Morocco so i do not see the connection with the Western Sahara, but if you are trying to connected to the WS. because of the Spanish occupations, should we also assume that Septa and Melila are part of the WS. since they are both still under Spanish rule? Come on now, you can do better than that.
Word of advice try to stick to facts because the use of "lost souls" leftists....... etc. should not be used in a debate as facts.

You said"Now back to dividing the Sahara, you have to make a difference between tactics and strategy, the tactics is to get Spain out, the strategy is to get back the whole Sahara, you know that this was our final objective, since when Bouteflika made that same offer through Baker, in 2001, Morocco rejected it..."

To get Spain out:) Spain was out because of internal political and social pressures that followed Francisco Franco's death, Morocco had nothing to do with it ( Maybe Morocco should apply the same pressure so Spain can leave septa, Melila and even theMaadNOUS iSLAND). You still did not answer my question my friend, please explain to me the tactics that would consist of given up half your territory? You think The US will give up Arizona to Mexico, as part of " tactics" in case of a conflict:) ?Morocco gave half the Sahara to Mauritania, because Hassan II gave what was not his in first place. Mauritania gave up its right to the territory due to the heavy military losses and incapability to protect the Iron train that represent its major export. In other words, if the WS was really part of Morocco, you guys should have never stop fighting for it and never accepted a cease fire that stipulated that independence can be an option not give half of it to Mauritania and claim later that is was part of a " grand plan".

You said"You can debate all day and that is true, and so can your foreign minister and his spokesman, but your soldiers who lost their souls in AMGALA cannot... allah yn3al li mayhshem..."
You are talking about the soldiers that died helping the Sahrawi refugees, that were fleeing Moroccan napalm bombardment, no shame in that, you should also note that, AMGALA 2 also happened and that many more Moroccan soldiers were killed, not with bullets but with knifes as a revenge. One more thing, you do know that Amgala is currently under Polisario/ Sahrawi control right?

you said"Finally, to put things in perspective, and also to make a cheap shot at you, the census of 1975 says there was 50,000 sahraouis in the whole sahara in 1974, that's something like 20 or 25 percent of people your generals slaughtered in your own country, and that's what should keep you up at night... when your presidents are killed cowardly... by the harkistes who took back the country that gave up a million of its best sons ... that should keep you up at night... you can debate all day, but BOUDIAF CANNOT.."

You are actually making my point:) You are wrong again, 1974 Spanish census claimed there were some 74,000 Sahrawis in the area at the time (in addition to approximately 20,000 Spanish residents), The spanish census never mentioned the Moroccan settlers that were moved to the WS. by Hassan II and the same settlers Morocco wanted them to take part in the referendum it agreed to. As for your " chamata" in regards of the victims of the terrorists in Algeria, that were killed by Alqaid affiliates, its ok, we are used to such reactions by now:) but since we are such savages plz ask you gov. to stop begging for the reopening of the border, and i am not talking about Moroccan expatriates leaving somewhere in noRTH America:) i am talking about the gov. that represents the Kingdom of Morocco. Few days ago, your prime minister was at it again, crying to France 5 about how the Algerians, wont open the borders, please tell your representatives to have some shame and stop.........be gging.
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Algerian
-2 #32 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-27 00:01
Hello Tewfik, it isn't that simple an answer, Algeria getting out of the way won't make the Western Sahara problem disappear, why don't you speak to some Sahraouis and ask them if they would stop fighting for their independence if Algeria backed off, and you'll see that the best institution to handle this is the U.N and I'm sure my Moroccan friends here will agree since they loath Algeria so much
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Algerian
-1 #33 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-27 08:14
MR Tewfik

IF you feel so strongly about Morocco's claim you should write to the UN and its security Council because last time I checked that issue was under the UN care.
FYI Algeria is not the problem dear friend, the problem is Morocco' s change of heart.
Note that according to the cease fire signed by Morocco it agreed to a referendum a fair one for that matter a referendum that would not include Moroccan settlers, only to change its mind so dear sir don't blame my country and supposedly yours for Morocco's change of heart.
Algeria will gladly engage in bilateral projects once the international legality is established and once the true Sahrawi people cast their votes.
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haras
+2 #34 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In Regionharas 2013-02-27 10:11
Dear Ungrateful Algerian, you don't have to lower yourself, it comes naturally to you...

As for your fight for independence that was your choice, and we helped you with it, in ways you won't be able to help us or anybody else, you don't have it in you. I have to bring to your attention, that during all those "pourparlers" with France, the FLN had a tight channel to consult and get the support of Mohammed V. I have a memory of Ben Bella saying on Al Jazeera that morocco did the "possible and the impossible" to help Algeria. end of proof.

As for you not begging at the UN, actually you did, and the Algerian independence issue was indeed brought to the general assembly by ... Morocco.

Morocco took another way to get its independence with lower costs in human lives, that was our choice to make, and as I said, the only territory where we had trouble is the one with borders with ALGERIA... end of proof

You can debate the international law and international court all day, but the fact that you won't debate is that if you want to travel to Laayoune, Smara or Dakhla, it'll require a Moroccan stamp on your passport, even if you work for the UN. end of proof.

As for dividing the Sahara, if it was a mistake, then we have a long history of correcting our mistakes, as you see we have nobody we can count on tho help us, but I see that you skipped the part where your midget president, BOUTEFLIGHA, made the same offer in 2001, to James Baker... end of proof

Finally, I only brought your fallen soldiers to remind you that some of your people died defending your policies in that region, and that you are denying them now, or maybe just switching policies and on the way to do so, forgot about them soldiers, as Algerians have a tendency to forget those things, as for our soldiers killed by knives (wink wink?), I bet you it's the same knives that murdered the peaceful people in ben talha and other mass massacres in Algeria... wink wink

As for the Spanish census, I guess you have no clue who are the people who moved to the Sahara and that you call "settlers", but ignorance never stopped an Algerian before... I brought that to compare and make a cheap shot at the 200,000 people killed in Algeria, my apologies if I was not clear before, OF COURSE RAH NCHAMTOU FYAMAKOUM "all day long" .... is it clear now?
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haras
+4 #35 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In Regionharas 2013-02-27 13:08
Concerning Amgala,

It was taken by the polisario after the battles then regained by the FAR, now it is located within the territory behind the wall...

So, thanks for making the point for me...

http://books.google.com/books?id=WjQfo3a1eVMC&pg=PA96#v=onepage&q&f=false

Please continue this "discussion", I like your spirit of revenge, especially as it displays itself in BenTalha... you should be proud...

And, as deals go, as you know, France offered to Morocco to give up Bechar and Tindouf if the king, Mohammed V, stopped his support to the FLN, he refused... and the rest is history...

The history of Algeria is not a long one, yet, it is full of lessons...
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Algerian
0 #36 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In RegionAlgerian 2013-02-27 15:28
HarasYou said
"OF COURSE RAH NCHAMTOU FYAMAKOUM "all day long"

Is that the best you were able to come up with? another insult:)
again, i am not going to insult you or insult your mother, because i can make you look bad without resorting to insults and name calling. Insults and name calling are the weapons of the weak.Too bad your parents did not raise you well, i really enjoyed destroying your so called "argument" , but after all i cannot keep debating an ignorant with no manners because as they say " "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
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Oh Darling!
0 #37 This is only for clownsOh Darling! 2013-02-27 16:13
Look up what a SCHPUNTZ is, it is your second nicknane

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haras
+2 #38 RE: Algeria: Policy To Lead To Isolation In Regionharas 2013-02-27 20:43
To Mr Tewfik
I am sure one day your proposition will make sense, when Algeria is done with all the oil and gas, they will turn to us, and seek "compromise", I am sure the phrasing then would be something like, "it's not us, that was the harkis, and their sons"

At that time, if I am to live to it, I will be the first to say Okay, because that's how you lead, by understanding and forgiving, if you want to be considered the big guy in the room, you need to act like one...

Sidna Mohamed once said: "سيد القوم خادمهم "

To Mr Tewfik (wink wink)
It is not the revolutionaries or their sons we have problems with, it's the guys who highjacked the country, you know them easily, they call themselves Algerian, yet they continue to reverberate the same harky fallacies like "Algeria was not considered a colony like Morocco and the rest of Africa were, Algeria was an integral part of France." true, for the land, not for its people, who were referred to in the "empire" as "indigenes"...

If we are to be so detail-oriented , Morocco was considered under "protectorate", but a rose, by any other name, smells just as good... and no matter how they call themselves, we know the harkiste when we hear them...
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Yahia
0 #39 Why do you want algerians to change their regime?Yahia 2013-03-14 17:44
Hi all
Why do you want from algerians to change their regimes? Why you don't ask morrocons to don't kiss the hand of the Tzar? Algeria is not a kingdom and after all from 1962 to this date we have seen 8 or 10 different presidents: Benkhada, Boumediene, Benbella, Chadli, Zeroula, Kafi and others but how many kings have morroocons seen during all their life. Keep your advices for yourself, the problem in Algeria is that even if we changed one million regimes, algerians don't like morrocons and will never do. It's not question of the Western Sahara like you pretend. It's more historical and because algerians and morroccons aren't made from the same stone. You need to read more historical facts to know about that
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