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Are You Moroccan?

Ahmed N. Mabruk


 Is the victim bleeding "maghrebin" ?

Apher A. L. 

I have recently relocated to Geneva, Switzerland, after close to ten years in the US. I must admit that despite been warned about the stereotypes I did not think the situation would be that bad. But it is a rather baffling issue here, and not in Holland alone. My very first incident happened at the work place. I am an Amazigh from the Souss, Morocco and my complexion is rather fair but my features are nonetheless unmistakably North African. I was having a friendly conversation with an older Swiss lady who was asking about my impressions of Geneva having just relocated from the US when the woman, unaware of my origins, let it slip that I "should be very careful with those 'Maghrebins' selling drugs and mugging people around Lac Lehman." Of course I did not know what to answer, after all there was some truth to what she was saying.

AMSTERDAM, The Netherlands — Within five minutes of stepping off the train and onto the platform in Central Station when I arrived here earlier this month, I got a taste of the “typical Dutch” bluntness that my fellowship coordinators warned the nine other American students and me about.

Our host families huddled in a group inside the station, each visibly eager to greet the American to whom they had voluntarily offered room and board (read: a cot and waffles) for the month, free of charge.

Other than their height—one woman towered above me at a jaw-dropping 6’1”—what struck me about the families was what they represented, or failed to represent. Collectively, they showcased nearly every social variation possible, from age to sexual orientation.

My own host family included a self-professed socialist lawyer and a pregnant Green Peace employee, both of whom view marriage as unnecessary and have decided to remain in a “partnership” despite the imminent arrival of their first child.

Still, all the families were “native Dutch,” the politically correct term for “white” in this country.
Of course, this didn’t bother me in the least. But it might help explain why the first exchange with one of the host “mothers” went something like this.
Me: "Hi, I’m from America. Good to meet you."
Mother: "Hi there. Are you Moroccan?"
Non-sequitur, much?
In our country, such a question—as impulsive as it seems—would rarely garner anything but a short laugh and clarification from me, or, I think it’s safe to say, from anyone who looks remotely Arab. But in Holland, as I soon found out, Moroccans possess a universally-accepted, second-class social status—as do most other “allochtoon,” a now-derogatory word for “immigrant.” Ask any Dutch person, and he or she will (bluntly) tell you the same.
To be sure, the host mom’s question was indeed a loaded one. It reflected a deep preoccupation with ethnicity in Dutch society—a preoccupation that exists even in Amsterdam, a city renowned for its tolerance.

But she wouldn’t be the last “native Dutch” to ask me if I was Moroccan.

Just last week, I interviewed a professor at the University of Amsterdam for my research. At the conclusion of our hour-long discussion, she (bluntly) asked me, “Were your parents born in Morocco?”
And the week before, I was asked essentially the same question at a soiree in Frankendael Park, though the man arguably had a bit more social grace than the other two (i.e. he didn’t explicitly mention “Morocco” or “Moroccan”). In the middle of our conversation, he (again, bluntly) interjected, “What’s your background? Arab?”
I would never have expected to arrive at such a conclusion, but after working in Amsterdam for the past month, I’ve realized that I’ve never traveled to or lived in a place where I’ve felt more conscious of my skin color than this one.
If someone were to ask me about my ethnic background in Cambridge, I would equate the question with an invitation to discuss my mixed ancestry—my father is Libyan, and my mother is German.
But the Dutch, in general, seem to take stereotypes to the extreme. I’ve learned from other “allochtoon” how insulting such a question actually is here. “It implies you don’t belong,” one woman, who is originally from South Korea, told me.
For Arabs, the situation is worse. To assume a young man is “Moroccan” is to assume he is a juvenile delinquent, said Frank Bovenerk, a former professor of criminology at the University of Utrecht.
“Here, it’s very popular to focus on race and ethnicity,” Bovenerk told me after a guest lecture I attended two weeks ago. “Xenophobia is rampant—to the point that minorities are actually afraid of deportation.”
As an outsider, it baffles me how this could ever happen in The Netherlands. During World War II, it was the advanced Dutch system of registering ethnic minorities that facilitated the deportation and subsequent extermination of innocent Jews from this country. Though the Dutch have since trumpeted the mantra of “never again,” has their society really learned its lesson?
I’m a little afraid to get the blunt answer.


Article by AHMED N. MABRUK was first published by the Harvard Crimson
Ahmed N. Mabruk ’11, a Crimson news writer, is a history concentrator in Harvard University’s Mather House.

Comments (21)  

 
SAD!
0 #1 To be fair to HollandSAD! 2009-07-02 11:53
This issue doesn't exist in Holland alone, but is rather wide spread throughout Europe. I lived in Italy for a while and hated it even though I held a nice Job with a U.S company . Do you know that Marochino in Italian which translate literarily to Moroccan is actually a derogatory word if used between Italians? I ended up asking to transfer out of that country because I could not stand it. I feel sorry for Moroocans living in Europe and I wonder if the leadership in Morocco is doing anything about this. Europe has laws that protect Jews from anti-Semitism, Moroccans are being targeted for being Moroccans and Muslims. In france if your daugter decided to Clinge to her roots and wear Hijab to express her identity as do most Teen-agers, a Law was invinted to actualy prevent her from getting an education, preventing her from one of her Human right as agreed upon by in the U.N Charter.
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #2 Racism Alive and well .... even in MoroccoMoroccan Patriot 2009-07-02 13:20
Sad thing is that Moroccans are not only treated as second class citizens in Europe... they are also treated as second class citizens in Morocco.
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Hmimarmad
0 #3 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Are You Moroccan?Hmimarmad 2009-07-02 16:30
I spoke at length to few friends from Europe and their answer was very similar in regard to immigration.
They say immigrants from Muslim countries and specifically from Morocco and Algeria.
They only take and take and take but never give back.
They make too many babies without thinking about the consequences.
They are using the social system and the benefits of these countries to the most
They do not integrate
They want to impose their traditions on us but they do not accept our way of living
Once they set foot they bring the entire village to live with them in the same room
They are more committed to their rulers who happen to be dictators but never committed to the countries that host and help them and happen to be democracies.
You cannot trust them, they say things and do something else.
They rather live in misery than take care themselves while in Europe

As for the dutch thing, the guy who killed van gogh in day broad light did not make things easier either for Moroccans living in Holland.


Now you be the judge.
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Ash-lah
0 #4 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Are You Moroccan?Ash-lah 2009-07-04 09:06
Mr. Hmimarmad,
I disagree with you and with the opinion that suggest because there are some examples of Moroccans as you have described, we should stereotype and consider racism against Moroccans Justifiable.
The excuses your friend have shared with you have been tried here in this great country of ours (U.S.A) against African Americans, Hispanics and other minorities to no avail. The notion that minorities are lazy, warfare recipients and uneducated is a copout and an attempts to disguise the underlying racism. Even those who hate the U.S for whatever reasons agree that a ingenious effort by the American system to uproot the problem of racism and deal with it resulted in a formula for success that started with recognizing the problem exist in the first place.
Europe should learn from the US and deal with it racial diversity after recognizing it. The story of our friend "SAD!" in his first comment is what the Europeans have as an answer:" if you don't like it, leave our country". However, our friend "SAD!" is an American Moroccan who worked in Europe and can chose not to deal with it and go back to his country. Moroccan immigrants and citizens in Europe do not have that luxury and others who were born in European countries do not have a place to go to other then the country they were born in.
Yes.. the immigrant community has to do its part, but the burden should not be put on the community alone. No Minority group nor a specific immigrant community is cohesive, members of every community are as diverse as the cells that compose their Human brains. Just like there are delinquents in any community, there are successful stories. unfortunately, racists whether they are individuals or system of government, like to highlight bad stories and not the good ones. And when you confront them with the good, they will tell you : " Yes! but I am not talking about You. you are different."
Unfortunately this tactic works so well that you find even some from the immigrants or minority community buying it; they started blaming their own kinds for their misery and supporting those racist to their own detriment. Examples, like The French minister of Justice of Moroccan origin (Ms Datti) are used to keep every one silent instead of tackling the social ills in the European society. Ms Datti's dtory is given as an example of a women who has integrated, I guess integrating means, not wearing the Hijab and having children out of wedlock.
we should not be surprise that radical Islam is gaining support amongst European youth. If I were Obama's adviser, I would suggest to him not only to give the speech to the Muslim World from Egypt, but send civil right experts and community organizers to Paris and all the European capitals to help get rid of the triggers to radicalizations . To rid the world of Radicalization, one should tackle the causes and the triggers before fighting individual recruiters ... TO BE COUNTINUED
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Ash-lah
0 #5 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Are You Moroccan?Ash-lah 2009-07-05 12:39
Mr. Hmimarmad,
I disagree with you and with the opinion that suggest because there are some examples of Moroccans as you have described, we should stereotype and consider racism against Moroccans Justifiable.
The excuses your friend have shared with you have been tried here in this great country of ours (U.S.A) against African Americans, Hispanics and other minorities to no avail. The notion that minorities are lazy, warfare recipients and uneducated is a copout and an attempts to disguise the underlying racism. Even those who hate the U.S for whatever reasons agree that a ingenious effort by the American system to uproot the problem of racism and deal with it resulted in a formula for success that started with recognizing the problem exist in the first place.
Europe should learn from the US and deal with it racial diversity after recognizing it. The story of our friend "SAD!" in his first comment is what the Europeans have as an answer:" if you don't like it, leave our country". However, our friend "SAD!" is an American Moroccan who worked in Europe and can chose not to deal with it and go back to his country. Moroccan immigrants and citizens in Europe do not have that luxury and others who were born in European countries do not have a place to go to other then the country they were born in.
Yes.. the immigrant community has to do its part, but the burden should not be put on the community alone. No Minority group nor a specific immigrant community is cohesive, members of every community are as diverse as the cells that compose their Human brains. Just like there are delinquents in any community, there are successful stories. unfortunately, racists whether they are individuals or system of government, like to highlight bad stories and not the good ones. And when you confront them with the good, they will tell you : " Yes! but I am not talking about You. you are different."
Unfortunately this tactic works so well that you find even some from the immigrants or minority community buying it; they started blaming their own kinds for their misery and supporting those racist to their own detriment. Examples, like The French minister of Justice of Moroccan origin (Ms Datti) are used to keep every one silent instead of tackling the social ills in the European society. Ms Datti's story is given as an example of a women who has integrated, I guess integrating means, not wearing the Hijab and having children out of wedlock.
we should not be surprise that radical Islam is gaining support amongst European youth. If I were Obama's adviser, I would suggest to him not only to give the speech to the Muslim World from Egypt, but send civil right experts and community organizers to Paris and all the European capitals to help get rid of the triggers to radicalizations . To rid the world of Radicalization, one should tackle the causes and the triggers before fighting individual recruiters ... TO BE COUNTINUED
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Hmimarmad
0 #6 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Are You Moroccan?Hmimarmad 2009-07-06 06:13
Mr Ash-lah,
The examples that I mentioned are not excuses they are facts, Muslim Immigrants and Moroccans in particular have been marginalized for decades, used and abused to help Europe overcome the shortage of labor. Morocco is a poor country, meaning that at least in Europe there is hope that Immigrants can better themselves and some of us have, where as in Morocco, no matter what they do, the odds are against them due to extreme poverty, These are not excuses, these are facts and everyone who knows Morocco knows these facts.
We do not live in perfect world and Europe has nothing to learn from the US, It's all the same if you ask me, when things are going well economically, no one complains about the immigrants and when the economy is down and jobs are lost and all you hear is depression, recession, and what have you, the first casualties are the immigrants.

A government report reveals that one in nine African American men ages 20 to 34 is in jail and one out of every 106 white men is in prison or jail. one in every 100 African American women, and one in 355 white women are incarcerated.

These figures do not make the US look better when it comes to dealing with their own citizens let alone immigrants. It does not show that the US has no race issues,

Lastly, just like some would not want Europeans with a bikini thong or nude in our beaches, Europeans do not want to see women with burqas in their, We should not use double standard. We should not impose our tradition and religion on anyonwe, Live and let live.
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Riffain
0 #7 NadorRiffain 2009-07-06 09:55
il se souvient avec précision du jour où il a quitté le Maroc pour les Pays-Bas. C'était le 17 octobre 1976, à 9 h 30. Ahmed Aboutaleb avait tout juste 15 ans. Il laissait derrière lui son village déshérité de Beni Sidel, dans le Rif. Son grand-père était mort et le jeune homme s'en allait, avec sa mère et ses cinq frères et soeurs, rejoindre La Haye où son père, l'ancien imam du village, avait trouvé un poste d'ouvrier d'entretien. "La migration c'est sans pitié, terriblement difficile ; cela exige un prix incroyablement élevé", déclarait-il sobrement à un journaliste du Volkskrant d'Amsterdam, en 2004.

Naissance à Beni Sidel (Riff - Maroc).

1976
Arrivée aux Pays-Bas.

1987
Obtient un diplôme d'ingénieur électronicien.

1998
Directeur de Forum, institut pour le développement multiculturel.

2004
Adjoint au maire d'Amsterdam.

2007
Secrétaire d'Etat aux affaires sociales.

2009
Est élu maire de Rotterdam.


Sur le même sujet

Edition abonnés Fiche pays : Pays-Bas
C'était l'époque où celui qui est devenu, il y a quelques mois, le bourgmestre (maire) de Rotterdam acceptait de parler - un peu - de lui. Depuis, Ahmed Aboutaleb observe une très grande réserve.

Sa vie professionnelle et sa carrière politique sont toutefois placées sous le signe, très néerlandais, de l'efficacité. "Je n'ai pas tendance à idéaliser ma jeunesse, je sais ce que j'ai laissé derrière moi : LA Misere", expliquait-il, en octobre 2008.
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #8 The difference between Burqua's and Bikinis - All Women look great in Burqua's.Moroccan Patriot 2009-07-08 00:51
Hmimarmad,

You make a great point. I do not like the idea of having European tourists walking around topless and in bikini's on Moroccan beaches. So by that same token, Europeans do not have to like women walking around in Burqua's....

On the face, the argument sounds logical... but if you really think about it, there is something called the law. If the law says that women are not allowed to wear burqa's then what is next, men are not allowed to wear yamaka's? What comes next? Banning coffee with milk? Banning orange shirts?

When you have to ban something, it just proves that you are afraid of it. If I want my wife to wear a burqa when leaving the house, that is my business. It is nobody elses business. If my wife does not want to wear a burqa she can get a divorce, she can talk to me about it, etc...

The reason This little racist, Sarkozy, the Polish pretender is going after the burqa is because he understands how to motivate the masses through fear and arrogance and how to distract people from the fiscal crisis that is ballooning under his watch. He is being a politician. He is using the Burqua issue the same way politicians with no morals in the US push through illegal punitive measures against child molestors who have been convicted after the fact.

There are not many people who count in the US that are interested in protecting the constitutional rights of Child Molestors and there are not many people in France who count who are going to protect the constitutional rights of women who CHOOSE to wear the Burqa.

Personally, I think the Burqua is overkill, but I believe it is the right of each and every individual to choose what clothes to put on any given day. If the sight of a woman in a burqua is so offensive to the French, maybe they should stop visiting and their neo colonialist ways in North Africa, the very sight of French people is offensive to me; so if I go and try to push a law through parliment stating all french people should be banned from Morocco, how would that go over?

If you want your wife to dress like a whore, that is your business. If I want mine to dress conservitavely when in public, that becomes my business. The alternative would be for me to have to keep my wife locked up at home at all times. When I do that, is the French govt. going to require that my wife leave the house once a week? Once a month? Once a year?

How about all of the women that suffer poor self esteem from being exposed to wine at a young age? Shouldn't we ban alcohol instead?
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A sakkaki
0 #9 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Are You Moroccan?A sakkaki 2009-07-08 02:52
Hatred is a sign of ignorance and fear of anything different..Peop le have been on the move since the first MAN initially appeared in Africa..Tribes were formed to create clans against others..Today, we live in a "civilized" world thatis it's not any different..Mr.H mimarmad! Morocco is not very poor..I am sure you are not Moroccan because you criticize our country anytime you have an opportunity..Yo u are not any different than those who are afraid and ignorant either..I am sure you are Algerian, full of hatred and stereotypes..If you hate Morocco, what are doing here in our forum??? get lost man..

God bless Morocco

Abderrahmane
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proud moroccan
0 #10 we should blame ourselves tooproud moroccan 2009-07-08 08:39
bottom line that we are still guests in their country regardless of our immigration status legal/illegal/b orn here/citizen doesn't matter still Moroccan which is fine. we are there because our country is messed up and it is messed up because we are not smart enough to make it work like their country, knowing we have superior natural resources than them. we need to start likin each a little bit more Moroccans don't like each too much they tend to be full of jealousy and hate especially if they see someone who accomplished more than them if they have worked harder to get to those accomplishments .
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Hmimarmad
0 #11 Wake up!Hmimarmad 2009-07-08 09:21
I usually do not reflect on stupid comments but this one is for those who were raised to hide things, raised in lies and deception, raised to fool no one but themselves, raised to be proud but they have nothing to be proud of. Once Mr Abraham serfaty was accused by Driss lbasri that he was Brazilian. When I say things the way they are, I get called an Algerian, If I were an Algerian I would be proud of that too. I do not see my brothers and sisters in Algeria the way you see them. I do not agree with their Bouteflika and the Generals but I have the utmost respect for the Algerian people.


The truth will set you free. Face it, say it, love it and you will see.

For those who think that Morocco is not a poor country just because they see a Mercedes or BMW in the street. Morocco has a big gap between the poor and the rich,
" WA LFAQIRO YAZDADO FAQRAA WA LGHANIYYO YAZDADO GHINAAA!!!"

Morrocco 's Human Development Index is: 126 out of 159

HDI is a measuring development that combines indicators of life expectancy, educational attainment and income into a composite human development index.
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Younes El Alam
0 #12 A quick thought !Younes El Alam 2009-07-08 09:31
This is a topic that can take tremendous efforts and long days of discussions, on international Gov't and non-Gov't level, to tackle all the components of this reality and dig into the roots of it....but, only to realize that only very little positive result is accomplished. This issue is not new and it is not like it hasn't been discussed on high levels...

I do NOT want to sound cynical by stating the above statement. But, I want to add my opinion that may be a good solid start for each one of us that may feel a victim of racism, ignorance....an d my point is: One can only earn respect by respecting one's self and by empowering him/herself with knowledge and education. A society that is educated and has a respectfull number of intellectuals imposes itself on the rest of the world and earn respect instead of begging for it.

I am not justifying the ignorance and racism of others (who may be feeling inferior or insecure to begin with) and I am not suggesting that Moroccans (or those who feel victims of racism..)are not educated or not that good...what I am suggesting is, with focusing on improving our individual self and having a positive impact on our own socities as a whole, we can contribute in a much faster way to earn the respect we deserve; by imposing ourselves not by begging for it.

A collective, consistent,and a well coordinated hard work gives positive results indeed!

Just think about,for instance, the Program launched in Morocco "Atanmiya lbashariya" we can all criticize...but , I am sure it did a lot of good to our beloved country. Ask yourself, what are you doing for your country and keep the crticism to the side. Focus on your own contributions. Ofcourse, we still have a long way to go but the start is the most important! Let's focus on cleaning our own house amd good things will follow.

Knowledge is power, information rules! Go Morocco GO !!!

Allah, Al-Watan, AL Malik !!!

Note: For those who are living abroad (like myself) please, be great Ambassadors to your beloved country. Turst me, you will accomplish more this way.

Maghrebi and very proud !
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Hmimarmad
0 #13 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Are You Moroccan?Hmimarmad 2009-07-08 09:47
Moroccan P,
The burqa for me shows how a man can go out of his way to use and abuse a woman. A man whose mother is a woman, his sister is a woman, his daughter is woman.

We do not live in the dark ages, these people who impose the burqa on their wives love to see someone's else's wife's ass, legs, and breasts but when it comes to their wives they want to cover them from head to toe?
To make your wife wears a burqa is a nothing but insecurity, and luck of trust between a man and his wife.

Paris or Rome is not Kabul or Kandahar, as for the laws you mentioned, laws can always be changed and Constitutions can amended to work well with the present. A good example is the moudawana. If Sarkozy helps banning the burqa, he gets my high five.
Islam is a religion of harmony not a religion of suffocating women with burqas. what's next, are you going to have me grow a bush beard?
The Taliban went out of their way to undo islams's beauty, and it is sad that some are embracing their doctrine.
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Mike Kadmiry
0 #14 mkadmiry@yahoo.comMike Kadmiry 2009-07-08 13:49
Get people to organize massive demonstrations, in millions every week. Write to the Us congress and the senate and expose the Dutch governement of their crimes. Ask the US congress to stop aid to Holland, ask people of all other nationalities to join the massive protest! do not stop writing to all kind of organizations including the United Nations. Organize even five thousand letter writers every week. Make a lot of noise to stop tourists from coming to spend money in Holland. Organize people with computer knowledge to put a million websites on every single server in the world. Speak up for Antisemitism very loud because after all you are Semites as well since you are the sons of Abraham just like our cousins the Jewish people. But also remember one thing! In World War two a lot of innocent Jews suffered persecution by the hands of the Dutch for no other reason but being Jewish! To be fair not all the Dutch are bad , but the majority is getting there unfortunately and needs to be stoped...
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amazigh
0 #15 To Hmimarmad amazigh 2009-07-15 09:01
You said
"A government report reveals that one in nine African American men ages 20 to 34 is in jail and one out of every 106 white men is in prison or jail. one in every 100 African American women, and one in 355 white women are incarcerated."

Why the double-standard politically correct lingo with "African Americans" vs "Whites"? Why not call whites "European Americans"? I'm so tired of that. I'm Moroccan and American so that does make me an 'African American' although I am not black (nor brown for that matter).
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Hmimarmad
0 #16 amazighHmimarmad 2009-07-15 13:44
In the US black people are referred to as african americans, I did not come up with this lingo. You got to find someone else to blame for this stuff. If it was up to me, i don't have problem calling black a black, yellow a yellow, brown a brown.
This lingo is confusing to me, when I fill out forms, I don't find my color/race so i always check " other".
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Hmimarmad
0 #17 ban Moroccan staffHmimarmad 2009-07-16 06:21
Amsterdam – Several branches of the AH (Albert Heijn) To Go convenience stores were told not to employ staff of Moroccan origin, the AD reports Thursday.

AH To Go shops are small grocery stores located in train stations throughout the Netherlands.

The words 'No Moroccans' were written in bold letters on a work schedule, and then emailed to 31 AH To Go shops on June 4, the paper says.

A second email which included the text 'Urgent! No Moroccans!' was sent the same day to branch managers who questioned the policy.

An anonymous AH To Go employee told de Telegraaf that “there are already enough young Moroccans working here.”

“It could be threatening for customers,” he continued.

Albert Heijn headquarters said they do not tolerate ethnic discrimination, and are “shocked” by the development.

AH To Go stores are operated by Servex, a company affiliated with Dutch Railways (NS).

A spokesman for the NS apologised to 'everyone effected' and said measures are being taken within Servex. No information was given regarding consequences for the staff responsible for the emails.

The Dutch anti-discrimina tion bureau has requested an explanation from Albert Heijn, and said it is considering further action.

The bureau also raised concerns about employee age requirements in various AH To Go branches. For example, stores at the Alkmaar and Rotterdam Alexander train stations only want staff aged 16 and 17, and in Utrecht employees must be older than 19.

This too is against standard Albert Heijn policy, a company spokesman said.

Albert Heijn is part of Ahold, a major international supermarket operator based in Amsterdam.

Jennifer Evans / Expatica
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ABDELHAK ELIDRISSI
0 #18 Concerned MoroccanABDELHAK ELIDRISSI 2009-07-16 15:42
I think this is very difficult problem facing every emigrant. A lot of Moroccan who emigrated to Europe are not creme de la creme of the Moroccan society. They are often illiterate, or not educated enough. They are also afraid to loose their identity of who they are if they try to assimilate in their new environment. The european have only them-self to blame. They encouraged emigration of cheap labor, and they have to deal the obvious results. But one thing that I do not understand and I can not comprehend is, why are most of the Moroccan emigrant im any european country do not insist and encourage their kid on getting a good education. My niece has just graduate from engineering school in France. She told recently, that there is absolutely no Moroccan descended of emigrant parent studying with her. Even though they have so much opportunities to do so. I think everyone of us should take advantage from wherever we are living, and not to pay attention to xenophobic and racist people.
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #19 Mr. Hmimarmad, try to be consistentMoroccan Patriot 2009-07-25 17:50
Are you against Islam? Are you simply against freedom of speech? Are you a self hating Arab? Are you a white racist?

I do not know, and quite frankly it does not matter. You are free to feel and act any way you choose so long as it does not stop others from feeling and acting the way they choose. As long as you adhere to the law, and the golden rule, you will find respect reciprocated. You rights stop when they begin to infringe upon the right of others.

Politicians use political hate as a tool to keep the masses steeped in ignorance. Algerian and Moroccan political mantra focuses on demonizing the other so that no sustainable common ground can be fostered and neo colonialism is able to stay firmly entrenched.

I ask you not to be a facilitator of neo colonialism. I ask you instead to use your intellect and your reasoning to help pull the arab ummah out of the downward spiral of negativity that has us pulling each other down into the abyss.

Europe wants Morocco and Algeria to continue bickering. It is simply in their interests to play the, "lowly natives" off against one another. On the other hand, it is in our interest to rise above the fray and work together to create economic might and social cohesion so that democratic and Islamic values in their truest and most erstwhile forms become a reality in North Africa.
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Moroccan Patriot
0 #20 Should Islam be changed to meet the approval of child molestors and sexual deviants?Moroccan Patriot 2009-07-29 23:32
Mr. Hmimarmad

Are you suggesting that Islam should be changed to be better suited to western norms?

It really sounds like you are.

You said, "these people who impose the burqa on their wives love to see someone's Else's wife's ass, legs, and breasts but when it comes to their wives they want to cover them from head to toe?"

I, on the other hand said,"I do not like the idea of having European tourists walking around topless and in bikini's on Moroccan beaches. So by that same token, Europeans do not have to like women walking around in Burqua's"

My first point is that I DO NOT ogle other women, in any way shape or form. The only women I would ogle would be my wives.

I do not think that women should wear the burqa if they do not want to wear it. I do not think that you should have a beard either. We are all judged in the hereafter for our actions or lack thereof.

If you are not a Muslim, that is ok too. However, what is not ok is for you to automatically see defending the integrity of a society as a kind of abuse against women. I have sisters and a mother. I love and respect them greatly. I have one sister who wears the Abaya, she lives in Saudi Arabia and this is the norm there. I have a sister who wears the Hijab in NYC. I have two other sisters who choose not to wear the Hijab. This is their personal choice.

My point is that it is about personal choice. The personal choices of an individual should not be limited by government in Free societies, so long as those personal choices do not infringe upon the personal choices of others. This is what the 1st amendment is all about; Freedom of Expression.

If you live in the US, you should learn about real American values contained in the Bill of Rights. The entire idea of state and Federal rights comes into play when we speak about having laws that allow for differences in local society. In countries that care more about being in line with Islamic values, women are expected to dress modestly.

I do not condone having men throw acid at poorly clad women. On the other hand, I do not want my 13 year old daughter to wear a 6 inch long mini skirt, pounds of make up, stilleto's and a bikini top when shopping at the mall. There is a happy medium, it is called FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight to protect your right to express it. This is what a free and open exchange of idea's is based upon.

When you support Sarkozy's racist policies you exhibit a great deal of ignorance about what Islam is truly about and you go out of your way to ignore the real purpose of his racist legislation... this ofcourse is to say nothing about enforcement...

There needs to be parity and transparency. Banning anything is usually a sign of fear and intolerance. Laws are made to protect society. When laws are made to prevent members of society from excercising choices that do not infringe nor adversely affect other members of society, then these laws are considered overly intrusive and probably violate the 1st or 4th amendment.

Again, France is its own country, which is fine, personally, I have a serious dislike of most things that are French, except the bread, which is really good... but I would sound redicilous if I decided to ban all cheeses from France in my country because I did not like the idea of cows being touched inappropriately and when you call for preventing women from dressing how they want to dress, you sound the same way.
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Elmahdi Oummih
0 #21 Either you are Muslim or you are KafirElmahdi Oummih 2009-07-30 08:49
The Koran is very clear. Anyone who attempts to change the Koran, to "modernize" Islam is a Kafir. This is also very simple.

I do not believe in forcing anyone to do anything against their will. However, the Koran is very clear about how women should dress. They should dress conservatively. It is not about headscarves. A woman who wears a headscarf and then wears make up, high heels and blue jeans is fooling no one other than herself.

The truth of the matter is that anything that can be used to divide the Ummah becomes politically expedient. The western contention that the Head Scarf is a symbol by which women are degraded, controlled and disenfranchised is simple ruse to destroy Islam. This tactic is not new.

The most effective way to destroy a people is by taking apart their basic family unit, pit woman against man, child against parent. If you can do this successfully, you can destroy a people without firing a single shot.

Anyone who supports Sarkozy is an accomplice in an attempt to destroy Islam through a politics of fear mongering and false flagging.

The Headscarf is a red herring. If you are a good Muslim, it will manifest itself beyond the headscarf, Islam is what it is. When you try to "modernize" it, you claim to be above God; you become a Kafir.

Beware of those who claim to seek to emancipate women by relieving them of their obligation to be good Muslims. They liberate them all the way to hellfire.
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