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Morocco: Zineb's Big Mouth

Washington  / Morocco Board News--   Both  the pro-government camp supporting the newly approved constitution and the self-proclaimed anti-establishment group “February 20” movement have been utilizing unsavory methods and less than desirable schemes to get their messages across to the public and the international media. Some Moroccans are concerned with the likely long-term harmful effects of this poisonous debate on the Moroccan society and the potential split of the Moroccan public into two irreconcilable camps.

With the myriad of mean spirited comments hurled  by the  “Yes” and “No” camps during the run-up to the referendum on the new constitution, an interview by the Algerian newspaper Al-Watan with  Zineb El Rhazoui stands out as “nasty” and “malicious”. Most Moroccans probably never heard the name Zineb El Rhazoui before. Well, she is the co-founder of the Alternative Movement for Individual Freedoms (MALI). The Moroccan public refers to MALI as the group that advocates for the breaking of the fast in public during the holly month of Ramadan.

If MALI’s prior “advocacy campaigns” were more social in nature, Zineb’s involvement in the “February 20” movement has been political and ironically in support of a platform endorsed by conservative religious group such as “Al Adl Wal Ihsan” or the Justice and Spirituality Movement (JSM). In her interview with Al-Watan, Zineb’s statements went beyond a civil criticism of the proposed referendum. Her characterization of the Moroccan system as a “dictatorship” is inflammatory.

Zineb and several of her comrades in the “February 20” movement do not fully understand the ramification of some of their actions. While Zineb has every right to campaign against the proposed constitution and criticize the Moroccan government and regime, she notwithstanding has a responsibility to follow the golden rule of a free speech: respect the rights and sensitivities of others. In fact, young activists, like Zineb, lack of experience, the “February 20” freewheeling mannerism, and the movement’s lack of an open and democratic inner-debate are dangerous and harmful to the future of the “democratic movement” in Morocco.

For some observers, an attack on the likes of Zineb is an endorsement of the status quo and a tactical backing of the current Moroccan system. Far from it, large numbers of Moroccans are appalled with the corruption and nepotism of the regime and are equally dismayed with the amateurism and egocentricity of the “February 20” movement.

The Moroccan system is clearly not a “western democracy”, but it is not a dictatorship either. Even tough the official results of the referendum were widely exaggerated, the Moroccan people overwhelming supported the constitutional reforms proposed by the Moroccan Monarch. Yet, next day thousands of people took to the streets of Rabat, Tangier and other smaller cities protesting that the new constitution did not go far enough to address the demands of the pro-democracy movement. The very existence of this kind of debate is a sign that Morocco is moving toward an open society that will eventually create a more democratic political system.

The current government of Prime Minister Abbas Al-Fassi is unpopular and dysfunctional. The disorganized February 20 movement has failed to gain widespread public support. The Moroccan pubic seems to reject the two major existing political actors currently active on the national scene; and thus  sending a clear message that for now, there is no power broker in Morocco but King Mohammed VI..

 

Comments (71)  

 
AnaWanta
0 #1 Give credit..AnaWanta 2011-07-06 06:40
No matter what we say about the 20Th February Movement but one should give them credit. If it weren't there, we would not have seen this democratic shakiness that Morocco in enduring. I don't agree with all their revindications but I salute their courage. Political parties let us down for many decades.
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Noureddine Boutahar
0 #2 F20M is GreatNoureddine Boutahar 2011-07-06 07:36
Whatever you say about these young people, they are just great for shaking the political landscape in Morocco. As for the constitution, I don't think it has moved an iota towards democracy. Worse even is that the same players of yesterday are trusted with the implementation of this constitution and they will, of course, push their own agenda. Our hope then is the F20M.
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Salim Bouzid
0 #3 ...Salim Bouzid 2011-07-06 07:43
You said: "Both the pro-government camp supporting the newly approved constitution and the self-proclaimed anti-establishm ent group “February 20” movement have been utilizing unsavory methods and less than desirable schemes to get their messages across to the public and the international media"
You started your introduction with a decent balanced statement, but the entire post was a one side attack on Feb 20th and MALI.

>You said "The Moroccan public refers to MALI as the group that advocates for the breaking of the fast in public during the holly month of Ramadan". is this your best way of characterizing the movement? may you are passing your own judgment under the cover of public opinion!

>You said "Zineb and several of her comrades in the “February 20” movement do not fully understand the ramification of some of their actions". This is another way to under estimate the movement, and then you did explain what are these ramification!

This is a tactical game between the regime and the pro-democracy movement. The regime went for a non democratic constitution and pass it anyway, and now it the pro-democracy movement hitting back, it is a fair game!
Will this hurt the reputation of Morocco? maybe, but the goal here is to denounce corruption, torture, justice, autocracy, status Quo etc.

Is Morocco a dictatorship? look into the definition:
In contemporary usage, dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions, or other social and political factors within the state.
As we all know, our monarchy is above law.

You know, i am going to be honest with you. You represent the main stream, average folks who don't understand politics. I am perfectly fine with that, as long as you make that clear in your contribution. If you are providing a perspective on the political scene in Morocco, please read more before posting an article.

Thank you
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Tetouan
0 #4 ..Tetouan 2011-07-06 08:28
It's kind of comical from Zineb El Rhazoui to accuse morocco of beeing a dictatorship in a newspaper that's controlled by a dictatorship.. wich in turn makes morocco look like a shining beacon of democracy when compared to the butchers regime.
The 20feb mickey mouse tactics have become quite boring lately,they won't be able to get the moroccan population behind them if they keep on acting like a pack of wild rabid dogs.
Moroccans won't take this crap from them forever..tensio ns are high and are not in favor of the 20feb disney club.
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Ussef
0 #5 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthUssef 2011-07-06 08:59
A voice of reason, at last!
Accepting an interview with an Algerian paper is in itself a huge tactical mistake. It shows how inexperienced and immature the 20feb movement is. That's partly why it keeps loosing momentum.
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Morocco101
0 #6 @Salim BouzidMorocco101 2011-07-06 09:57
Mr. Salim, you are exactly what turnoff Moroccans from Feb 20 group. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you just does not understand how things should be. I think your analysis of this article is “average and typical of folks who don't understand politics”. You clearly did not understand the just of the article because of your biases.

If Zineb wants to join forces with Al-Adel and help them to get to power, that is her choice. But to be jeopardizing the stability of Morocco for the sake of whatever she is looking for, that is a Moroccan issue that we (Moroccan) all must address.

Your elitist attitudes is a sign that you are either not an “average Moroccan”, “Not Moroccan”, or one of those MRE who love in lala Land.
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Morcelli
0 #7 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthMorcelli 2011-07-06 09:58
Zineb is a courageous woman. You don't see many in the Arab like her. She is an independent strong woman who challenges those who will take your freedom to fast or not to fast and we need more women like Zinebif you ask me. Zineb will certainly not name an article "Man en blanc big mouth" and then talk about F20 instead. That's dishonest writing.
:sad:
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Chtaini
0 #8 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-06 10:09
Chtaini said

Si Hassan, the self proclaimed critics are at it again, this time is your turn. I know that you are more civil than I am, please do not respond to them. You are far more too important to those of us who read your balanced and informative posted articles in Morocco Board article and your posted constructive comments than these critics. I do not know this young lady "Zineb". I have a couple questons and you do ot have to answer them. Are there no Moroccan newspapers or magazines that would want to interview her? Is the issue not a Moroccan issue? If she made the faux pas to provide an interview with the Algerian media, knowing the political sensitivy existing between Us and our neighbors, where were her wise advisers?
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man en blanc
0 #9 Chalk it up to youth and inexperience.man en blanc 2011-07-06 10:28
Them yung'uns up to mischief again?
Stop pouncing on the youth. They're new at this thing. If the grown-ups have done their job running Morocco, La jeunesse marocaine would have NOT taken to the streets and hostile media outlets to plead their case.
They feel that their plight has fallen on deaf ears, so the Algerians fished out some compassion from somewhere and decided to play the "understanding" uncle. More like the candy-dispensin g weirdo in the white van if you ask me.
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Ninou
0 #10 Undemocratic F20MNinou 2011-07-06 10:30
Please Mr. Massiki do not listen to Salim Bouzid. If he thinks he knows about the Moroccan political scene then he should write his own article with his real name, if he has the courage and intelectual abilities. I have more respect for Zineb than his type. He must be agent provocateur.
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haras
0 #11 to Morcelliharas 2011-07-06 11:38
It is not the right to fast or not to fast, it is doing it in public that caused the whole issue...
Also, or maybe more importantly, could you convince your buddies in MALI to do whatever they want to do in a COURAGEOUS way, and not invite Spanish media to their Ramadan pique-nique ...
What can I say, when treason turns into courage and betrayal becomes a point of view, I think here is no point in arguing…
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Morcelli
0 #12 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthMorcelli 2011-07-06 11:54
Women In Morocco are breaking the barriers they are being liberated, they are major players in and outside the home. Zineb is an example of brave women who are not afraid of Moroccan men who spend the entire day sitting in coffeehouses watching women's rears. You go girl.
Women like Zineb are a rarity and will help emancipate Moroccan women in the next few years.
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Mister1979
0 #13 God bless the Febr 20Mister1979 2011-07-06 17:31
The Febraury 20 Movement is the real opposition in Morocco. They have done things that the normal parties didn't dare to do or to say since independence.
It is thanks to the Febr 20 that the king came with reforms.

The Moroccan parties aren't going to make Morocco democratic. They are only interested in power. The only one who can make Morocco democratic is the pressure of the Febr 20
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Borsa
0 #14 My 2 penny's worth...Borsa 2011-07-06 19:13
At last a balanced article which accurately reflects the feelings of The Majority. I'm all for debate but to portray the Feb20 movement as the voice of the people in Morocco which is the perception an outsider would feel reading these endless pro Feb20 movements articles on MB while hardly posting any anti Feb20 or any article for that matter that is faintly critical of the Feb20 and their obscure agenda (not to mention their strange bedfellows Al Adl Wal Ihsan) undermines the very ideal of democracy that the Feb20 movement claim to adhere to.

I've noticed now the new tactic amongst Feb20 diehards is to accuse any Moroccan who does not support them as "uneducated", "illiterate" and a "Makhzen supporter". Is this the level to which the Feb20 movement have descended to? Calling other Moroccans who happen to have differing opinions for their beloved country spiteful and condescending names? This is as Hassan Masiky rightly pointed out a very dangerous development in Moroccan society.

Winston Churchill was famously quoted as saying “No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”

I think it’s time for the Feb20 movement to behave in a sincere fashion and show case their democratic zeal by accepting that for now at least the Majority have spoken and they have spoken with a loud and clear voice. This does not mean this will be the end of the reforms but I don’t need to explicitly point that out, deep down we Moroccans know this won’t be the end and further changes will come but they will come peacefully and most importantly only when the Majority have spoken not a tiny, vociferous few.

Borsa
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The Moroccan Patriot
0 #15 Morocco is a DictatorshipThe Moroccan Patriot 2011-07-06 21:03
Algeria is NOT Morocco's enemy. The current Moroccan Regime and the current Algerian Regime are the enemies of all Moroccans and Algerians.

Zineb is fully within her rights to do as she pleases, just as you are fully within your rights to criticize her.

The Current Moroccan regime is a dictatorship. It is not the worst dictatorship in the world, and there is more freedom of expression here in Morocco than there is in Iraq, Afghanistan and other supposedly western liberated nations... but to think that a defacto dictatorship does not exist here is simply like deciding to close your eyes so you do not see the sun.

The Feb 20th protest group is owed a debt of gratitude by every single Moroccan. The reason it is owed this debt is that without them, and their bravery and the sacrifices they have made, nobody in Morocco would be talking politics PERIOD. Don't forget that it was only about a year ago, when the ministry of interior was still burning magazines that ran popularity polls on the monarchy!!!! Could you imagine them doing that today?

We do not need to have one person or group to guide Morocco. Each region, each municipality should be allowed to run things for itself, according to its own needs.
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abedeen
0 #16 Zineb's big mouthabedeen 2011-07-06 23:03
This is an interesting article from today's NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/
This is what we should as Moroccans care about instead of be preoccupied with who fast and who doesn't. Zineb is a good thing to happen in Morocco, February Movement is a good thing to happen in Morocco, we need somebody to wake us up from a long sleep, our political parties are arms in the hand of the Monarchy against Moroccans.
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mbt
0 #17 Noble Prizembt 2011-07-06 23:20
today in Marrakech the pen-pushers are on "idhrab" and it is a frequent occurrence, it disrupts day to day activities for those who need their papers stamped 100 times. If there was a call for automation it is the administration in Morocco.

Really those who put Yes on the ballot paper can they really say things will change for them or Morocco? Nothing is going to change unless there is a pressure and rightly so from the likes of FEB20 movement. I would call for a revolution in Morocco but that is not going to happen, I know, because people are sleeping and letting the few who are consciously trying to better Morocco carry the can. FEB20 really deserve a Noble Prize.

This regime was very quick to mobilise the referendum, the apparatus was put together and carried out in no time to stay in power. Unfortunately we can't say about the economics and finances of the country, nor those looking for work can clock in for work as there is no work for them.

The majority have not spoken only the king and his ilk. It is our duty to support Zainab & co, the brave souls, to get rid of this dirt and purge Morocco for a better time then currently being experienced. It can't get any worst then it is?
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Tetouan
0 #18 ...Tetouan 2011-07-06 23:42
The 20feb smurfs are XXXXX of moroccan society who will drive our beloved home country into something much worse then anyone can foresee.
How many of you know that it has been proven from the very beginning that there are polisario symphatizers that have infected the 20feb disney club?
I don't think i need to ask if you heard about the XXs who eat ramadan..do i?

You really want these bunch of clowns to have any say in any constitution?
They are a menace to our ISLAMIC heritage and society,they are a danger and should be treated like their buddies Al Adl Wal Ihsann ban them from politics.
They are a bunch of jokers who wouldn't know what democracy is even if it hit them at 200 mph in their face.
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Chtaini
0 #19 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-07 02:41
Chtaini said

Since I am for civil dialogue and debate to continue, I checked this morning the blog entitled “zineb” the Big Mouth, the last 3 comments representing views supporting “Zineb” and what she represents are very interesting. One of them wants to give the group she represent a “Nobel Prize” while at the same time calls for a “Revolution in Morocco but that is not going to happen” and suggests at the end of his comment “it is our duty to support Zainab & co”.
The second comment states that “Zineb is a good thing to happen in Morocco’ and ends with “our political parties are arms in the hand of the Monarchy against Moroccans”
The third comment states “Zineb is fully within her rights to do as she pleases, just as you are fully within your fights to criticize her” calling “the Moroccan regime is a dictatorship.” and finishes with ending his comment without knowing that what he is proposing as a solution to this “dictatorship” not realizing that what he calls “Dictatorship” is proposing to do and that is “Each region, each municipality should be allowed to run things for itself, according to its own needs.”
I am having problems equating asking for the Nobel Prize for a group and then calling for a Revolution.
I am also having problem accepting the notion that “Zineb” is a good thing and the Monarchy is a bad thing.
Finally, Calling Morocco a “dictatorship” and yet claiming to call for autonomy at the regional and local levels not knowing that the autonomy policy is exactly what he calls “dictatorship” is doing.
Can someone clarify for me these dichotomies, contradictions, comparisons and statements? This gives me a feeling that we are dealing with a new slogan not the old defeated one which said “my way or the highway” but a new one which says “Give fanatic blind support for Zineb and her group no matter what they say and do” . The sad part for the authors of these 3 comments is that the facts show that 98.5% of the Moroccan people do not want to have anything to do with them and with this “Zineb & Co” and that some of these statements and hers as well as her group and their action can be legally interpreted as sedition. Fortunately for them we live in a democracy. My advice is: disagree and protest but stay within the law and do not insult.
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Riffi
0 #20 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthRiffi 2011-07-07 04:32
This is what we call a democratically and constitutional process. In every democracy you have big mouths, now Moroccans has theirs. Let the process start, at the end things get weed out by itself. Morocco and its citizens were hungry for freedom, now they are eating nonstop let them feast.It will stop.I mean citizens will be more aware and educate about the constitution
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Morokkan
0 #21 RESPECTMorokkan 2011-07-07 05:27
While i don't like anybody to push their agenda on me... i wouldn't push mine on you, it is called respect.
See we Moroccans are used to channeled, organized one sided agendas and Medias. What i am seeing now is a breath of fresh air.
While 98% of us Moroccans wanted the reforms and the new constitution ...i am not going to insult, intimidate THE REST of the Moroccans that disagree (I don't care if they are islamist, leftist, Chemkariste , Khoubzawiste, Makhzaniste...e tc) That is illegal, immoral and flat out wrong ...Some contributors either do it on purpose or get too emotional while writing (it happens when u get old hint hint)
All joking aside, it just rubs me the wrong way, kind of arrogant.
So good luck to you Mr chtaini and your clan...and the best of the luck to Moroccan patriot and his clan... I love democracy and keeping them honest!!
See i don't care about the politics i just love Morocco... by the way i am a Khoubzawy...for those who like to label folks around here.

Take care y'all
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The Moroccan Patriot
0 #22 Veiled threats and intimidation - Moroccan political savvy at work - Goebbels would be proud!!!The Moroccan Patriot 2011-07-07 06:29
The Feb 20th group has done more for Morocco than any group of patriots since Mehdi Ben Barka was murdered by regime agents in France. Let us be perfectly clear, when you stand up to the Propoganda machine, there is often a price to be paid. Mehdi Ben Barka paid the ultimate price. Had Mehdi Ben Barka not been murdered, perhaps Morocco would not be in the sorry state it is in today, perhaps Palestine would be free of Zionist oppression, perhaps, Arabs would have effective leadership? But, no... he was murdered, with the assistance of the former colonizer of France, who understood that it is much cheaper to maintain neo colonialism and use puppet rulers to affect your policies than it is to maintain military colonialism.

Morocco, to this very day, is still one of the many victims of neo colonialism throughout Africa. Economic policy in Morocco is NOT in the interests of most Moroccans. Instead, economic policy benefits the neo colonialists and a small class of figure heads that rule only because of the mercy of the neo colonialists.

Now you may ask, how does the Makhzen keep control of the masses? Well, the answer is through fear, intimidation and propoganda. An example of how propoganda works:

The Makhzeni criminals are sending a message through the Muqadems, Bergagas and other criminal elements employed by the state that Feb 20th movement = People who do not fast. Why do you think this was chosen? Well, because not fasting is offensive to most of the Moroccan public. The reality however, is that the Makhzeni's have a much higher incidence of scoffing at Islam.

It is after all the Makzeni's who for decades arrested just about anyone with a beard and subjected them to all manners of torture in the DST prisons hidden underneath the Temara zoo. It is the Makzeni's who occupy all of the bars hidden throughout the country. It is the Makzeni's who have the highest rates of Alcoholism and drug addiction, not the people who belong to the Feb 20th movement. Makhzeni's do drugs and drink excessively because their lives are pretty wretched. I do not want to generalize, but many Makhzenis go through life not being able to trust anyone, because they themselves have no real sense of integrity and sold their souls long ago for a few copper pennies....

This does not have to turn into an us against them... rather it should be an opportunity for us to show our brothers the error of their ways and help them to find the guidance that they need to find the right path. I want to ask everyone reading this to talk to one person you know who drinks alcohol, and do not be judgemental with them, just help them to stop. Take them with you to the mosque, smile at them, be kind to them, be generous with them. This is how the good people of Morocco can best fight to gain Freedom for all Moroccans... by fighting the scourge of Alcohol.
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Bentelblad
0 #23 Bravo Zineb and company!Bentelblad 2011-07-07 07:35
I applaud her for being courageous and putting her own life in danger. The issue here is not fasting or not Ramadan! Thats too simplistic of an argument! She is advocating free speech in all its forms! She advocates for human rights in Morocco. What is wrong with that? Here in the US, we are lucky that anytime we get mobbed, robbed, hassled, or if we know we have been wronged by someone, we know we can trust the police here as well as the court system. She is advocating for us to do that back home as well so that people who dont have connections dont have to rot in jail for no reason, or be tortured..etc! Your article is too simplistic! Read more about her. I applaud her for having the guts to advocate for freesom in all its shapes and forms.
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Sallehdin
0 #24 ..Sallehdin 2011-07-07 08:51
The 20feb spies are a disgrace to patriotic moroccans worldwide,it's a mess currently in morocco thanks to those babies who think they are above the LAW...thanks for nothing you barbarians.
It took the UK 800 years to achieve what they have today,yall want morocco to achieve the same thing in 400 years?
Not gonna happen..insalla h justice will be served for undermining the will of the moroccan people and you will get what you deserve.
You should be ashamed of yourself calling every single person who voted YES a "makhzen",how dare you to insult the intelligence of the moroccan people..WHO are you?
Who do YOU work for? Who pays YOU? I demand a full investigation by the moroccan authorities into this "20feb group" who keep undermining state security with their false flag operations.
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Frankie
0 #25 To ChtainiFrankie 2011-07-08 01:25
Voila all the information about Zineb. and here we are, the Police Broke the first part of the new constitution by breaking into the house without a warrant: Enjoy It Mr.CHTAINI

"The former editor of the weekly "Le Journal", Ali Amar, and Zineb El Rhazoui, co-founder of the Movement alternative to individual liberties (Mali), were arrested Friday morning in Casablanca, Morocco. A former partner accused Mr. Ali Amar of theft and Ms. Zineb El Rhazoui was accused of complicity. Ms. El Rhaoui was recently featured in a lengthy article about Morocco published by French Daily “Le Monde”.

According to testimony of two reporters present, Amar and Zineb were in the apartment in a session of writing articles for the foreign press. The Police reportedly arrived very early in the morning, without warrant, broke open the apartment door. The two occupants said they had received no prior notice"
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haras
0 #26 to Frankieharas 2011-07-08 02:50
This is old news (from early summer 2010 last year), regarding Ali Amar's theft of a laptop and check, but you're free to blame it on the new constitution, here is the full story:

"A Casablanca court rendered its verdict last Thursday in the case against reporter Ali Amar by his former partner, Sophie Goldring. The founder of the defunct publication "Le Journal Hebdomadaire", was sentenced to three months suspended sentence. It is a trial " with political Motives ", said the reporter. In addition to the prison sentence , Ali Amar must pay 40,000 dirhams in damages to the plaintiff Ms. Sophie Goldring, plus a 500 dirhams fine to the court."

Fortunately for the police the accuser is a westerner...
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man en blanc
0 #27 Head in the clouds, or in the sand. man en blanc 2011-07-08 02:57
This regime will never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. I am growing more and more pessimistic about the ruling class willingness to move Morocco towards democracy.
According to family members in Khouribga, the city has just witnessed some of the most violent demonstrations ever, among the reasons for this outburst, is the promise from the officials that jobs at the OCP will be offered in exchange for YES votes. Needless to say there were no jobs.
The future of Morocco is more uncertain as ever, and I know that the ruling apparatus has absolutely no intention of affecting any meaningful changes to the status quo beyond recycling the old and ineffective tiny band-aids.
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Chtaini
0 #28 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-08 03:33
Chtaini said

@Frankie

Frankie, lately, this is the 4th comment on Morocco Board where you attack me for no reasons. If as you say "The former editor of the weekly "Le Journal", Ali Amar, and Zineb El Rhazoui, co-founder of the Movement alternative to individual liberties (Mali), were arrested Friday morning in Casablanca, Morocco. A former partner accused Mr. Ali Amar of theft and Ms. Zineb El Rhazoui was accused of complicity. Ms. El Rhazoui was recently featured in a lengthy article about Morocco published by French Daily “Le Monde”. Zineb is not only a co-founder of MALI with Amar, but ahe use to work for him at le Journal. What does that have to do with me?

I do not enjoy people being arrested for their freedom of expression. But watching the “bizarre comportment” of this Zineb and her nasty attack characterizing the Kingdom of Morocco a “dictatorship” I could not help but to observe how she was close to sedition in the way she was characterizing the Kingdom of Morocco in the media of our neighbors who wish us nothing but harm. Based and what you all think of her, I thought that the MALI cause was more important to her than being a heroine in the eyes of the foreign media. I was wrong. Although I did give an advice on this issue to her and her group in one of comments, I repeat the advice again: “98.5% of the Moroccan people do not want to have anything to do with this “Zineb & Co” and that some of her statements as well as those of her group and their action can be legally interpreted as sedition. Fortunately for them we live in a democracy. My advice is: disagree and protest but stay within the law and do not insult.” I wonder what Lemrabet have to do with all this "Mambo Jambo"?

I am sure that Zineb is going to be released once again, but this time she has be careful about what she is going to say in the future. She should not be making statements which warrants her arrest and then claim that she has been arrested because of denial of freedom of expression. There is a difference between freedom of expression and sedition. All she has to do is think about what to write and what to say before she does both. Another advice to avoid problems as she says she had with the police over her sexual relation if any with Ali Amar: Why don’t they just get married and close that chapter, I am sure they will enjoy living together since they believe and think the same way. Birds of the same fedder usually stick together.

As to you Frankie, get off my back, would you?
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Moh
0 #29 @FrankieMoh 2011-07-08 04:13
And why exactly should the moroccan authorities show any kind of warrant when the 20feb trolls themselves have shown that they don't care about the rule of law when THEY don't have any kind of permit to hold any of these protests?
Or is the rule of law and the new constitution only meant to applicable to the moroccan authorities and not to the 20feb anarchists?
It's easy pointing your finger at 1 side without taking into consideration that the rule of law and new constitution should be applicable to ALL moroccans,they don't deserve any special treatment then any other person in morocco.
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Salim Bouzid
0 #30 ...Salim Bouzid 2011-07-08 04:41
To Mr Chtani and others Mekhzenian agents:

You are saying that non-married couples should marry to avoid being detained, and
calling Morocco a "dictatorship" should be punished by law. Right?

Great so, where is the right to privacy. According to article 24, the citizens have the right to privacy in their own homes, and the homes is inviolable. You can not break into a home and search a place without previous warrant. Article 23 prohibit the detention of citizens except in extreme cases. Declarations of Ms Zineb about democracy in Morocco fall into article 25, which protects the freedom of speech, and her non-marital relationship fall into article 24 (privacy) and article 3 (freedom of cult). By the way most these articles are present in the old constitution as well.

My point is, if you have to defend the mekhzenian attitude, at least don't contradict the very basic constitution rights that you were advocating for in your "revolutionary constitution".



Article 3:
الإسلام دين الدولة، والدولة تضمن لكل واحد حرية ممارسة شؤونه الدينية.

Article 23:
لا يجوز إلقاء القبض على أي شخص أو اعتقاله أو متابعته أو إدانته،إلا في الحالات وطبقا للإجراءات التي ينص عليها القانون.الاعتقا ل التعسفي أو السري والاختفاء القسري، من أخطر الجرائم، وتعرض مقترفيها لأقسى العقوبات. يجب إخبار كل شخص تم اعتقاله، على الفور وبكيفية يفهمها، بدواعي اعتقاله وبحقوقه، ومن بينها حقه في التزام الصمت. ويحق له الاستفادة، في أقرب وقت ممكن، من مساعدة قانونية، ومن إمكانية الاتصال بأقربائه، طبقا للقانون. قرينة البراءة والحق في محاكمة عادلة مضمونان. يتمتع كل شخص معتقل بحقوق أساسية، وبظروف اعتقال إنسانية. ويمكنه أن يستفيد من برامج للتكوين وإعادة الإدماج. يُحظَر كل تحريض على العنصرية أو الكراهية أو العنف.

Article 24:
لكل شخص الحق في حماية حياته الخاصة. لا تنتهك حرمة المنزل. ولا يمكن القيام بأي تفتيش إلا وفق الشروط والإجراءات، التي ينص عليها القانون. لا تنتهك سرية الاتصالات الشخصية، كيفما كان شكلها. ولا يمكن الترخيص بالاطلاع على مضمونها أو نشرها، كلا أو بعضا، أو باستعمالها ضد أي كان، إلا بأمر قضائي، ووفق الشروط والكيفيات التي ينص عليها القانون. حرية التنقل عبر التراب الوطني والاستقرار فيه، والخروج منه، والعودة إليه، مضمونة للجميع وفق القانون

Article 25:
حرية الفكر والرأي والتعبير مكفولة بكل أشكالها. حرية الإبداع والنشر والعرض في مجالات الإبداع الأدبي والفني والبحث العلمي والتقني مضمونة.ع
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Frankie
0 #31 APPRECIATION??? ??????????????? ????????Frankie 2011-07-08 07:03
Until recently, the rates of electoral outcomes (participation rates, to abstain from voting, or «white vote»), announced by the ministries of interior in the countries under the weight of regulations

Authoritarian regimes, a sign of lying, corruption and bribery. Has been devoted in this regard is a «on the polling method Tunisia», Egypt, Gabon ... Etc., where power was shipped absentee ballots and the votes of the dead or do not have papers to get the magic number: 90 per cent and more ... These rates were a cause to denunciation and condemnation by the international community, especially Western democracies. But those rates were not an obstacle days not an obstacle to dealing with these systems, and by the conclusion of new deals, open workshops, take advantage of the privileges, and by the word: the subordination of people of the plans and architecture inspired by the International Monetary Fund. The culmination of this policy, the Heads of State Bank official visits Echtmunha speeches against the veneration of these systems.
Morocco won the referendum on the proportion of more than ninety per cent. For the first time, a louder chorus of international Ngradh expressing satisfaction for «democratic transition» defined by the country, a shift will enable him to engage in the approach to achieve political reform and strengthen the rule of law and democratic rights. Eighth and everyone praised the tone of parental satisfied with the political maturity of the Moroccans, but President Nicolas Sarkozy went further than the enthusiasm of everyone in the support .. Phone Moroccan king to congratulate him on «the great success achieved by a referendum on the new constitution in Morocco» before expressing the Moroccan King, as indicated by the statement issued by the Presidency of the Elyse, «for France's full support for this path model, which continues to Morocco through it, firmly and peacefully. , Deepening Democracy ». The penalty for «good conduct» Morocco, Sarkozy proposed the idea of ​​integrating the Kingdom is a member of the Group of Eight decided to allocate $ 40 billion of the revolutions of the young and for some African countries like Ivory Coast, Guinea and Niger. This proposal is not for the dark eyes of the Moroccans, but in fact translates into a desire Elyse fortify its strategic location in the Maghreb. After the appointment of Christine Lagarde at the head of the IMF, Sarkozy became the channel for political and monetary window of being able to pass his proposals and monitoring of aid. Sarkozy's account is that Morocco can play a crucial role after the departure of a Mediterranean-G addafi, especially France and supported the appointment of Youssef Omrani as secretary general at the head of the Union for the Mediterranean, Sarkozy, who wants to convert it to a regional Trojan horse. Sarkozy's proposal is that, regardless of good intentions, calls for several observations: first, did not know Morocco revolution in the sense Tunisian or Egyptian, nor is it the scene of events similar to those experienced by Syria or Libya. Second, as proposed by Sarkozy, is the provision of a share of Morocco's cake of the 40 billion that was earmarked for Egypt and Tunisia, is nothing more than Tkpala the hands and legs of Morocco, the liberal order new, on the head «loyal Alchukarh»: the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, including Iatmdanh of a policy of impoverishment . And for us in the brightest example of the Greek situation. This is underlined by the newspaper «The Guardian» British to point out that «aid established by the Group of Eight to support the emerging democracy in the Arab countries, particularly Egypt and Tunisia, is only a trick, in reality it« trap »for these countries because they aid conditional on the implementation of the policy of« market Free », as well as a shackle of these countries and make it a captive of the debt, and can not decide their own fate and remain in the passenger does not separated by Europe, such as Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall». The newspaper said that «the Group of Eight wants to retain considerable influence in the economies of these countries, they supported the previous systems for a long time. He left Hosni Mubarak and Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, Tunisia, Egypt Mthaglten debts estimated at billions of dollars, instead of cancellation of this debt, you want more of the Group of Eight, it is to continue its control over the economy of those countries. Before conducting any elections in both countries, governments are being linked to the next series of heavy debt ». Therefore, instead of pumping these Albulionat of dollars to evaporate quickly, is not it better to clear the scourge of debt and aid in the form of grants, not loans!?

To Mr. Chtaini, Sorry If you feel harassed, am off your back, I apoligize. I thought we are here to discuss, and we might end up being friends, but it is NOT leading anywhere. Sorry again.
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Boabid
0 #32 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthBoabid 2011-07-08 07:22
I am starting to see people who voted yes starting to whine andt complain about the situation in morocco. They want jobs? They will get lharmaka
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Ninou
0 #33 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthNinou 2011-07-08 08:22
Salim,I think you are very bitter for some reason. Your comments are just mean and your language is "mekhzenian". I would love to know your agenda. You are in a way typical of a Moroccan (I am not sure you are one) who is just mad at the system and would join any group that would create havoc.
Do not be mad!! I do support the King and I want him to change and lead the change.
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Frankie
0 #34 @MOHFrankie 2011-07-08 10:39
you have not idea what you are talking about? try to read what you write before you hit "Add Comment"
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #35 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-09 00:54
I am French from Paris and I support mademoiselle Zineb. You Marokains need to change et embrace liberty. Putting religion everywhere make marokko poor et backwards.
Merci
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mbt
0 #36 life of luxurymbt 2011-07-09 04:37
Sophie Barbeleau liberty does not save you from Hell-Fire, or religion make you backwards nor poor, contrary to your misguided judgement it enhances life here and Here-After, but then what would you know? So stay in France with your life of luxury.
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #37 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-09 06:09
Monsieur ou Madame mbt,
If you prove to me there is hell ou paradis, i will become musulmane today. I heard that musulman men will get 70 vierges when they kill for la religion but that is not good because when they get les vierges ils ne sont plus faithful. C'est absurde.

J'aime le soleil de Marrakesh et la cuisine du maroc mais pas les follie de la religion. Les marocains are nice but need to wake up and become civilized instead of worshiping les rois et les princes and going after this poor girl.
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Ninou
0 #38 To Sophie!Ninou 2011-07-09 06:22
Welcome to MB and the discussion. The article is not about the religion or Zineb's views on Islam. Nobody really cares about her position on the fasting. The issue is Zineb giving an interview to an Algerian newspaper calling Morocco names!! As French you may not understand the impact of such ill-advised acts. We are not going after her, she is running her big mouth on issues that she does not understand- BTW I know few Moroccans who do not do Ramadan and do not care!!
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maroquone
0 #39 Chtaini's Boardmaroquone 2011-07-09 07:58
Why don't we rename this website "chtainis.com" since the admin insists on giving him leeway, censoring the rest of us and deleting most comments!
Censor this too!
GOOD BYE...
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #40 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-09 08:33
Ninou,
Marokko should not be afraid if Zineb talk bad about Marokko to the presse algerienne. We in France talk bad about France all the time, but no one cares, if we talk bad or good because everyone is free to speak how she/he wants. We have much to do instead of worrying who said what.
For Marokko to advance, it needs to give people freedom, because freedom make people care about their country more. if your gouvernement take your freedom away, you will not care about your country as much.
I know that Marokko and Algerie have problems a propos du Sahara but i also know that Marokkain people and Algerian People care for each other. these 2 people are des hotages d'un ancient regime and c'a doit changer pour le
benefit des 2 nations. Sorry about my english
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Chtaini
0 #41 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-09 08:42
Chtaini said

Marquone keep your cool and do not pick on the administrator of Morocco Baord. You have a bone to pick with me, I will be more than happy to give you my phone number and email and we can continue. I think what Morocco Boad wants to do since it censored my responses to you and to others is to minimize what appears to become "Lamdarba dial L3ialat fel Hamam 3la Lakbab". I will be more than happy to hear from you on giving you my contaact information. So please do not blame MB for trying to keep insult and defamation from the debate. By the way, you are not any less concerned in your own way about Morocco than "the Moroccan Patriot". Look at how he and I are debating in a civil manner. So do not get upset and let us drop inflammaroty language from our debate. As matter of fact, I would love to debate you without any character assassinaton anywhere any place anytime. Let us do it. If not then as I told Frankie get off my back.

I am looking forward to give you my information.

Take care
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mohan
0 #42 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big Mouthmohan 2011-07-09 09:01
WHY ZINEB ? JUST BCAUSE OF ALGERIA AGAIN...THIS MASIKY SINCE THIS BOARD OPPENED ALL HIS MESSAGES ABOUT ALGERIA...WELL ZINEB SHE IS RIGHT....IF YOU HAVE MOROCCO PORC PRODUCTION AND RED WINE FROMM MEKNES...WHY NOT JUST, XXX WITH RAMADHAN THEN !!!
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Ninou
0 #43 To MohanNinou 2011-07-09 09:21
Masiky? I do not understand? Al-Watan is anti-Moroccan newspaper! Al-Watan writes bad thinks about Algeria, I agree on that!! But never ever good news from Morocco. I am not here to discuss Ramadan! To each his or her views on this. I do it and I do not care if Zineb does it or not!!
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mbt
0 #44 Muslim Firstmbt 2011-07-09 18:01
Ninou whatever Zineb thinks of Morocco is her opinion and is another matter but certainly when it comes to Deen we Muslims have duty to see if something is wrong, to atleast say to the person or indeed the nation to stop wrongdoers, thus my gripe with M6, that if you call yourself muslim we have to bring to people's attention the folly of doing wrong. Certainly fasting is one of the commandments of Allah (swt) and it is not excusable only under special circumstances. Loot at this way would you not guide your child on the right path? Or would you say well if he is into drugns let him be?

It is our duty as muslims first to follow the Deen, like I said before when you die Allah (swt) will not ask you what is your nationality. We all have a duty to stop someone going on the wrong path, that includes M6, he is a failed leader. In his reign there are all sorts of bad things happening, he and his followers will be accountable on the day of reckening indeed that goes for all Arab leaders and their follows. Allah (swt) is merfifull but we have to fear is wrath, have not we learn anything from the recent disasters?

Mohan thanks for letting us I know, inter alia, there is a pork production facility in Morocco, Allah (swt) is very patient with Morocco.
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Zidna
0 #45 It is good to have a voice for the monarhcy on MBZidna 2011-07-09 19:41
I have been surfing on the web reading many comments on the political situation in Morocco. The interesting thing is that most comments and articles praising the new constitution and the monarchy are written by authors who are signing by their real names and they are proud of identifying themselves. I have the curiosity to go and do my search to find out about these people. Many have working or still work the governement. see articles in " compétences marocaines dans e monde". In MB, those wo used to work for MAP, they do not give their actual fonction etc....Those who are not hiding their real name try to wear golves to express their opinion by fear of the Makhzen. The day where any Moroccan can write without fear from the Makhzen will be the day when Morocco is a real democracy with a real constitution. my name is Zidna
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haras
0 #46 Let's not get blinded by partisan politicsharas 2011-07-10 02:52
I do understand why someone with a strategic vision and the interests of morocco at heart like Mr. Masiky is not happy with Zineb El Rhazoui going to an Algerian newspaper to make statements such as:"Mohammed VI a raté un rendez-vous avec l’histoire, il sortira par la petite porte comme tous les dictateurs !" ou encore: "le roi a lui-même nommé une commission ad hoc composée de personnes en perte de crédibilité totale auprès du peuple marocain et qui n’ont aucune représentativit é."

In fact, the members of the commission are known for been the "over the fray" who’s who in constitutional matters in Morocco, and regarding history, we'll see who will use the back door...

But if you do agree with her statements, or think that it is her right to say whatever she wants (factual or artificial) about the commission, the king, or Morocco, in an Algerian newspaper, then I don't see why you would complain about this article in MB.

By the way, all the points made by Mr Masiky's are factual, and relevant, when he refers to the fact that this same person used to advocate for a pique-nique during ramadan in a public place in the city of Mohammedia, it was to show that her "political interests" are new and opportunistic, especially when you see her holding hands with Al Adl wa al ihssane...

Freedom of expression goes both way, that's all...
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #47 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-10 07:57
The majority of French people say bad things about Sarkozy and Chirac before him, but no once cares, they can say what they want, it not un crime to speak. The crime is when un ex french minister had sex with little boys in Marrakesh par exemple.

Marrokkan people should not confuse crime with freedom of expression. I care very much about your country and i want it to be like France with its Marokkan touch.
ca veut dire Monarchie with traditions marocaines enforced with democratie universelle. If Marokko embrace these two, it will be the best country in the world in my opininion.
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man en blanc
0 #48 I don't care who's in charge of Morocco. Assuming that someone is actually in charge! The Monachrchy is a FAILURE!man en blanc 2011-07-10 08:30
Obviously not M6. HE IS THE WEAKEST LINK!
Why should business as usual be subject to the occasional hiccups called a new CONstitution? A new CONstitution is an old and an overused stratagem, way past its shelf life.
How many CONstitutions does it take to screw in a light bulb? Or to keep a country with its millions of loyal subjects wallowing in hopelessness?
The previous CONstitutions were such a bonanza that the misery I encounter everyday in Casablanca must be a figment of my imagination!
How many times Moroccans will swallow the same old tired let's-dust-up-t his-meaningless -piece-of-nothi ng and sell it to the crowds? Are they playing for time here?
Yes. They are! But the King has not built any new prisons since last year. Why? What? the Saudis decided to go cheapo on the King?
MMMMH.
Okay. we all know that we are Back to the Hassan II era of black holes. Torture and Shut the front door!
Really?
Back to kidnappings, the Orangina, and stagnation.

Actually, it never stopped!

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man en blanc
0 #49 Reality according to me. Just an opinion.man en blanc 2011-07-10 09:58
We must agree that Morocco is a Third World Country because it was designed to REMAIN a Third World Country! Not by foreign powers mind you! I can name a dozen countries who started worse for the wear , later than when Morocco regained its much-ballyhooed Independence. Independence from whom by the way ? From a benevolent colonizer that actually built SOMETHING in Morocco? Well those countries eclipsed Morocco on every
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haras
0 #50 to Sophie Barbeleauharas 2011-07-10 10:50
Chere Madame, "Moroccan people" don't like it when the French start their sentences with "Morokkan people should"... or "Morokkan people should not" ...

I understand that you mean well and you want Morocco to become "the best country in the world in my [Sophie Barbeleau] opininion", I kind of agree with you, I too want Morocco to be the best country in the world for Moroccans, I hope you don't mind...
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #51 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-10 23:34
Monsieur haras,
I know it is not my place to tell Marokkan people what they should or should not do. I was not speaking as French, I was speaking as someone who cares for you country that is dear to me.
Don't be afraid of France, France is Morocco's best friend and we will always defend our best friends. Ask you ambassador in the UN and you will hear what France does to defend it from the enemies of your integrite' territoriale.

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mbt
0 #52 French Arrogancembt 2011-07-11 01:20
Sophie Morocco is like France but I don't know about the Moroccan touch. What is Moroccan touch?
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ta gueule
0 #53 French out to stay out of Morrocco ta gueule 2011-07-11 03:51
To Sophie barbeleau; we would be much better if it was the Brits ( ur traditional ennemies ) who colonised us and yes we dont want Morrocco to be like Democratic France with a Morroccan touch...we want france to stay out of morroccans affairs and keep its citizen pedophiles ...sophie je ne sais quoi ...mind ur own
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Chtaini
0 #54 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-11 10:22
Chtaini said

This Sophie is a distraction. Pay her no mind. She can say anything she wants on MB because MB is a democratic forum. The More importance we give this women, the more distracted we are going to be from the main issue at hand which as follows:

Morocco is not a dicatatorship and we reject this "Zineb" and her former employers attacks on Morocco.

The French women can say anything she wants. We thank her for the love she has for Morocco but she can never ever love as we do period.
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #55 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-11 10:42
mbt,
If you perceive that France is arrogant then perhaps you are right. We can afford to be arrogant and have accomplished things to be arrogant about, even though i do not think we are. We are simply secure under our skin. We do not insult people for simply starting a conversation. Marrokkan people should not be afraid and insecure, I know of many capable Morrokkan who given a chance, accomplished many good things for Marrokko. needless to say that they were educated in France. Your King know better, His a smart and he knows when his cards are. Marrokkan people should follow their king, He did many good things for Marrokko , people are more free too speak, but unfortunately Marrokkan people do not know what to do with this new found freedom.




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haras
0 #56 Dear Sophie Barbeleauharas 2011-07-11 10:57
The first Tagine I enjoyed in the US was prepared by my French friend, I understand and value the friendship of people from other horizons, especially from France, with whom we maintain constructive relations that seem to profit both sides...

I assume you've been to Moroccco and witnessed first hand the warmth of our people, but we get touchy when we hear sentences that start with "Moroccan people should..." that's all.

Going back to Zineb El Ghazoui, she is not helping, and she had a destructive and negative input... we wish that the educated in our country learn from their French counterpart (or family in her case) how to draw the difference between freedom of expression and abject nihilism...
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haras
0 #57 to $$$haras 2011-07-11 11:18
I don't know if your remarks were directed at me, in which case I have to advise you to carefully read what the others said before writing in (frightening) capital letters... first understand then react...

As for why I don't go back to Morocco, I assume the short answer is that it is none of your business, but to follow up on your (lack of) rational, are you planning to go back to Morocco in case the 20 February took power?...

If you really live in the US, you would know that people from all countries come here seeking education or professional growth, that includes young and old talents from all European countries, Japan and other rich and democratic lands.

But I appreciate your input...
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Sophie Barbeleau
0 #58 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthSophie Barbeleau 2011-07-11 22:56
Monsieur Chitaini..... you are dictating to people in this forum not speak to me and at the same time kissing up to MB by stating that MB are democratic in order for them to post your comment. you should not go that low or be afraid of French people, do like Mr. Harras who is genuine and simply told me that "Moroccan people should..." do not like this, which i understand.

You are treating people here like small school children by telling them what not to do. C'est horrible.
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Morokkan
0 #59 Waw french touch... Morokkan 2011-07-11 23:56
Premierement... Moroccan affairs will be taken care off by Moroccans .... not France, not anybody else... As to French people being more secure on their skin...etc ... that is just a bunch of mambo jumbo non sense...i am glad you guys wear speedos and like it... we are just different ... i know plenty of secure and non secure French men and women.
Merci beaucoups pour votre amour a notre pays; et je vous recommende de continuer a venir au Maroc et boire notre the a la menthe ET SOURTOUT soutenir notre tourisme... ont aime vos Euros et nos amis Francais, Espagnole, Allemand...Etc.
As far as zineb is concerned, well she can do what ever she wants and talk to whomever she pleases ... she only represent herself!!
Thanks
P.S Moroccans is spelled like this : MOROCCANS NOT MARROKKANS
Marocains en Francais.
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MOHAND
0 #60 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthMOHAND 2011-07-12 02:16
THAT IS SO LAME WHEN YOU SAID THAT MOROCCANS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN AFFAIRS, AND DO NOT NEED ANYBODY FOR HELP...WAOW KIND OF CONTRADICTION MY FRIENDS...I WONDER HOWCOME THIS KING YOU LOVE,HE... AT ANY MOMENT GOES TO SARKOZY FOR ADVICES AND HELP ON WHAT TO DO NEXT...FRANCE IS RUNNING MOROCCO FROM ITS TOURISM SEX AT MARAKECH EXPRESS TOWN TO THE HIGHEST MAKHZEN LEVEL BRIDES ON CORRUPTIONS...P LEAAAAAAZ
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Chtaini
0 #61 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-12 03:52
Chtaini said

Sophie Barberousse

You sound like a pirate who is burning the house and watching others put the fire out. Read what you have written to start it all out and attract underserved attention and relevancy in a debate which is extremely important to us Moroccans. Moroccans are not “stupid”, by your statement you put both confronting sides on this “Zineb” issue to team up against you in spite of your patronizing. You fail course 101 in French Diplomacy. You turn everyone against you. Your statement about the Moslem religion was uncalled for but it worked. You used the attack and then retreat approach on an issue that is very dear to the Moslem: Islam. This is how you introduced yourself to the debate “I heard that musulman men will get 70 vierges when they kill for la religion but that is not good because when they get les vierges ils ne sont plus faithful. C'est absurde.” You did not stop there after some patronizing statement about your love for Marrakech, you put more fuel in the fire by unwarranted insults and criticism “Les marocains are nice but need to wake up and become civilized instead of worshiping les rois et les princes and going after this poor girl”. This reminds me of what the French colons used to say: “Le Maroc est un paradis, mais sans les marocains.”

You then forget how you introduced yourself to the debate and claim the contrary “We do not insult people for simply starting a conversation. Marrokkan people should not be afraid and insecure,” Then you do not only monopolize what freedom should be, you become insulting by telling us “Marrokkan people do not know what to do with this new found freedom. I was speaking as someone who cares for you country that is dear to me”. If Morocco is dear to you that is not a pretext for you to say what you want when you want about the Moroccan people. Where is the positive French women diplomacy. You must lack it. Miss Jeanne d’Arc come lately you speak as Native Americans say with a “forked tongue” just like your “Zineb” did in Characterizing the Kingdom of Morocco as a “Dictatorship” then turn around and say, I love Morocco.

You must be hallucinating when you say that “Marrokkan people should not confuse crime with freedom of expression” How low can you go Sophie? The worst of all this polemic of yours is what comes after “I care very much about your country and i want it to be like France with its Marokkan touch”.

Like la faye in Lala land with her magic wand in her hand, you are going to turn Morocco into France because that is what you want. Wake up, this is not a Cinderella world with the charming Prince who has a Moroccan touch to make you happy. If Morocco does what you say it will be the best country in the world, how sweet of you. Where is you magic wand? Make it so with your magic touch. I know about the history of the statute of liberty but I did not know her name was Sophie.

Get hold of yourself my dear lady. This “Zineb” is an adult and is vaccinated and can defend herself without having you as a surrogate to speak on her behalf. We are not afraid of this “Zineb” as you state. Zineb could be my sister, my niece, my cousin and I should let her know when she crosses the line in the excited attempt of declaring what she thinks. When she takes the freedom to say that the Kingdom of Morocco is a “dictatorship” whether in Algeria, France or Mars for that matter, she should be informed that her statement is inflammatory. Hassan, the author of this blog, is a polite gentlemen titling his Blog “Zineb’s Big Mouth” others would have titled it otherwise.

“I am French from Paris and I support mademoiselle Zineb.” You can support this “Zineb” as long as you want whether you are French from Paris or Asterix girl friend or Assurance Tout Risque Magic Potion Girl, but when you say the following “You Marokains need to change et embrace liberty. Putting religion everywhere make marokko poor et backwards”. You lose your charm. Think deeply about this statement and tell me whether it makes you a friend of Morocco in the eyes of the Moroccans or it does not. Ask you French and Moroccan friends they will be honest with you.

I lived in Paris in la Maison du Maroc 1 Boulevard de Jourdain in 1965. I love France and the French people, I did not like the French colons. Who would? they almost destroyed the Republique and the Motto on which it stands “Liberte, Fraternite Egalite” in creating the OAS (organization de l’Armee Secrete”. Thanks Be to god that General and president De Gaulle save the day. I have members of my family who died in the defense of France in the Second world War. Some members of my family are French and live and France. I never thought that I would have a discussion like this with a French lady who badgers and bashes Morocco and the Moroccans. But considering the strong Friendship between Morocco and France and between the French and Moroccan people, I forgive her.

As to your response to my comment, You also failed the 101 course in the strategy of divide and rule trying to play us one against the other. We know how to put out the fire you started. I still maintain you’re a distraction. I do not know whether you are conscientious of it or not?
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hasnaa
0 #62 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big Mouthhasnaa 2011-07-12 08:16
....

Maroc : "Utilisation horrible de la réligion lors du déroulement du référendum sur la constitution"

«Plusieurs violations concernant le déroulement du référendum sur le projet de la constitution amendée par notamment l’utilisation horrible de la religion dans la lutte politique de la part de l’Etat en utilisant les mosquées et les zaouias pour appuyer la position officielle et l’exploitation de la domination des médias publics par l’Etat, le recours à la pression, au chantage et à l’intimidation des citoyens».

C’est ce qu’a relevé mardi 12 juillet l’organisation marocaine des droits de l’homme (AMDH) dans son rapport annuel dans lequel elle a consacré un chapitre sur le dernier référendum sur la révision de la constitution.

«Les normes d’intégrité, de transparence et d’égalité des citoyens ont été violées durant toutes les phases et les étapes du processus référendaire ce qui a eu des répercussions sur la crédibilité et la validité des résultats annoncées», selon le rapport de l’AMDH

L’organisation non gouvernementale marocaine a estimé par ailleurs que «la situation des droits humains se caractérise par l’élargissement de l’écart entre le discours officiel et la pratique réelle des appareils de l’Etat».

Pour cette ONG le Maroc n’avait pas de volonté politique quant à l’application de ses engagements en matière des droits humains.

L’AMDH a estimé que cette absence de volonté politique "s’est avéré principalement dans le désengagement de l’Etat quant à la mise en œuvre des principales recommandations de l’Instance équité et réconciliation (IER) et l’orientation de la politique de l’Etat sur la voie de la régression pour ce qui est des acquis en matière des droits humains".

Le rapport constate "la poursuite des violations graves des droits humains, la dégradation de la situation dans les prisons, de la justice et ceux qui en découle comme violation quotidienne des droits des citoyennes".

"Les violations de ces droits sont des pratiques sans cesse répétées par l’autorité ce qui se reflète de par les aspects de la violence, la torture et les traitements dégradants et humiliants pratiqués par les différentes forces publiques à l’encontre des citoyens lors des manifestations et des sit-in, ou pendant la garde préventive ou lors de leurs arrestations par les patrouilles de sécurité", note par ailleurs le rapport de l’AMDH.

L’ONG marocaine estime que "la détention politique constitue toujours un phénomène essentiel illustrant la violation grave du système des droits humains au Maroc malgré le discours sur le respect des droits humains et sur la prétendue clôture du dossier des violations graves du passé".

L’AMDH note qu’en 2010, la situation des libertés publiques au Maroc a connu de sensibles régressions et le rythme des violations s’est accentué notamment pour ce qui est du droit de création des associations, de liberté de rassemblement, de liberté de la presse, de la liberté syndicale et de la liberté de déplacement".

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Morokkan
0 #63 Easy A si Mohand...Morokkan 2011-07-12 10:45
We all know the makhzen depend on the outside support and that is since the independence(Ma ybe even before).
Makhzen doesn't represent all Moroccans, obviously not the ones asking for change in the streets!!
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Ayoub Kably
0 #64 selfemployedAyoub Kably 2011-07-13 01:09
As long as the Algerian government keeps harboring the terrorist group polizario in Tindouf,there will be no peace until the dunes of the Moroccan Sahara do us apart.
come good.
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haras
0 #65 Si Mohandharas 2011-07-13 02:37
So and so... so you're from casa and once went to college Ibn Tofiel, (whatever that means) does it exonerate you from been an algerian AGENT wannabe?

Just read the rest of your post, word for word from the Algerian propaganda textbook, as they say, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it is a duck...

By the way, it was Algerian regime (and Gaddafi) that, despite Algerian own problems, was funding dozens of polisario and hiring thousands of mercenaries who killed thousands of Moroccans soldiers and scores of Moroccans civilians, I bet your father was not one of them....
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ninou
0 #66 Mohand=DRSninou 2011-07-13 02:50
Mohand, I will advise you to go back to Forum Algerie-DZ where you have single handedly undertaken an anti-Morocco campaign that must be financed by DRS. MB administrators are nice to let you comment herre, since I was banned from Algerian forms for no reason! Your game is obvious !
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Chtaini
0 #67 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-13 03:20
Chtaini said

Mohand

You sound like Sophie. Are you Sophie in disguize? or is she you in disguize? Stop being a distration like her. If you were a Moroccan as you claim or don't you claim you are, you would not have been attacking Morocco and the King as you are.
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haras
0 #68 Si Mohandharas 2011-07-13 05:52
Here is my problem with people like you, you hate Hassan II more than you love Morocco...

I am not convinced by your story, been still vengeful for a couple of slaps you received a long time ago in the 80s (I think it was the AWAX at the time that was in charge of universities not military makhzanians).

The Moroccans I know always find it in their hearts to forget or forgive much more horrors they were exposed to, they put on a smile and go back to do the right thing for their homeland. Unlike some, it is not our nature to be vengeful. I have family members who were arrested in the 70s and in the 80s, they still love their country and spent their life working for the good of its people.

As for the Sahara, again you are echoing Bouteflika’s and Boumedienne’s falsehoods, so blame it on yourself if we still think you are the DRS agent in LAM3ARIF.
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jazmine
0 #69 WE NEED MENTALITY CHANGE NOT A DOUSTOUR CHANGE!jazmine 2011-07-16 07:30
Morocco still a male chauvinistic country...when a woman speaks, only men object or criticise...wom en still been raped, degraded and humiliated....s ome men live in cucoo land! morocco like all arab dictatorships is a dictatorship especially under the previous king when thousnads if not millions of people dissapeared in prisons! ok things are changing slowly under his son but he is the HEAD of eveything and Amir El mouminin (if there are any in Morocco), hence the king should be accountable for the failure of the justice system, the corruption, the degradation of humans, the unemployment etc....we can't even bring the top bosses down for rape or corruption or expose them like we do in Europe and US...everything is hush, hush; they call it in morocco respect; surely that isn't respect if a rich guy abuses children, he should be exposed as poedophile and jailed....this wouldn@t happen in morocco because the rich guy would pay a solicitor and a judge and get out and no one can expose him!
if you a son/daughter of someone, or have money then you are respected...its surprising how many women were raped and never reported it when I was at university in Rabat....still goin on to this day....maids abused, children of the street abused....gener ally ALHOGRA.... We need few more decades to change the mentality. Human rights presence in Morocco is next to nothing; they only there because of the US pressure and not to serve the public...how many cases have they helped? have they ever visited prisoners of conscience or any prisoners?
In same way the political parties, so many of them yet they are all useless; what have they done? have you seen a party that is actually working in improving the country or the people's social or political life? they all corrupt.
My father fought for the country all his life and was buying arms and ammunition and smuggling it to the Atlas to fight the French; nevr had recognition from Moroccan government or moroccans. I personally have nothing against the French or the Americans...nev er bite the hand that feeds you.... yet I have eveything against moroccans; they are their own worst ennemies! Moroccans have not given him his rights (he's decead now) yet the French recognised his work and pay his wife a pension each month: Moroccans are not to be trusted..... yet good luck to GIRL POWER, perhaps something is changing slowly in Morocco when women become empowered, independent and rule their own lives.
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Taliesyn
0 #70 On Free SpeechTaliesyn 2011-07-21 00:14
I must disagree with you on your statement " golden rule of a free speech: respect the rights and sensitivities of others". If you were to look at the court cases in "free countries", notably the USA, free speech needs to be absolute. If you do not have the right to offend, you do not have a right to free speech.
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Chtaini
0 #71 COMMENT_TITLE_R E Morocco: Zineb's Big MouthChtaini 2011-07-21 22:08
Chtaini said

@Taliesyn

How do you distinguish between “free speech needs to be absolute, having the right to offend which equates the right to free speech”, and defamation and character assassination? If someone defames you and character assassinates you and uses freedom of speech as a defense, can you sue him? In “free countries” you can do that and you should also be able to sue in “nascent democracy”. Shouldn’t you? When there are no rules which make it clear as to distinguishing the difference between “free speech needs to be absolute” and the need to protect against defamation and character assassination, the right to offend is no longer a right to free speech.

Allow me to give you a real example: My name is Chtaini. Some wise guy writes it as Chitan and insist on that because I do not view things the same way he does about politics in Morocco, Am I offended of course I am. But then again as you say it is freedom of speech. Being the person who is being attacked, I do not consider that to be in the realm of freedom of speech to vilify someone’s name because of political disagreement. I think that either the person if full of hate, vicious or is irresponsible and is not in control of his mental faculties, or is a “Jlakha” as I used my freedom of speech calling some one who satirized my name the same way once.
What about when people are inciting others to violence because of their inflammaroty use the freedom of speech. This no longer offending or is it?
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